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[TechSpot] The Best Graphics Cards: Nvidia vs. AMD Current-Gen Comparison - Page 17

post #161 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Actually, I have a tremendous amount of issues with the TS "head to head".
The 7970 is not the king. Not by a long shot. In fact, the 7990 doesn't exist mainstream because the cores couldn't hack it.
In the same notion, 690 right now is the best single card, retail, that money can buy...That's just a fact, jack.
There are MANY reasons as to why a dual GPU card is often a better solution then a single and with the latest drivers, the 690 is actually on par with 2x680's so...I find the staff comments from TS to be outrageous and uniformed.
Another issue I have with the review is a simple one, Techspot ran an OVERCLOCKED VERSION OF THE AMD CARD AGAINST A STOCK VERSION OF THE NVIDIA CARD.
For me, right there, considering the 15% stock OC the AMD card has, the entire test is invalidated. If you're not willing to OC a 680 or get an MSI GHZ edition to go head to head at the same stats...You're either ignorant or extremely bias...Or stupid.
Statistics matter...And they've broken practically every rule of statistics with this review...There is no fair comparison of like cards...They're not using the best retail of what's actually available...They're not even comparing at the same clock speeds much less, like-cards.
At this rate, we might as well start racing Ferraris against Smart-Cars and calling it legit because they're the best of what retail had to offer.
Lost all respect for Techspot...Not that there was much, anyway.

1. The 7990 is King and yes it is very much available in the main stream as much as the 690

2. If you can get the job done with one superior card then why buy two lesser cards? Its all a matter of preference in my opinoin. Do I wanna spend a grand on two 670 or just buy a 7990 and be done with it? but hey I may be wrong on this one.

3. a 7970 GHZ clocks at about 1100mhz while a 670 Superclocked (yes I said a 670 not 680 and I'll explain why) .stock is about 960mhz, FTW version is 1024mhz and a regular 670 is 928mhz. . However the price for a 7970 GHZ is the same as a regular 670. So whos fault is it that AMD offers more at that price point? Besides the real advantage AMD has isnt the core clock but the memory bandwidth which again, who's fault is it hat nVidia chose to go with a lower bandwidth even after they had months to study the competition?

4. You may think you know computers, but leave cars out of this because that would be my domain. Comparing a six figure Ferrari, an exotic supercar, to a 15k smart car, an metro mobile, is nothing like comparing a 450 dollar card to a 445 dollar card. work on better analogies please.

You're clearly a fanboy which is fine, you like what you like, but don't try to discredit evidence that you chose the losing side just because your feelings are hurt. If it makes you feel any better AMD still sucks HARD in the CPU realm and sadly they're next chipset, 1090FX , still wont support PICe 3.0 (what the hell AMD?) so let them have this victory and hope that nVidia steps it up with the GTX 7xx series. I know I'm looking forward to it.thumb.gif
Edited by DownshiftArtist - 11/28/12 at 6:55am
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Bahamut
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post #162 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownshiftArtist View Post

1. The 7990 is King and yes it is very much available in the main stream as much as the 690
2. If you can get the job done with one superior card then why buy two lesser cards? Its all a matter of preference really. Do I wanna spend 1 grand on two 670 or just buy a 7990 and be done with it?
3. a 7970 GHZ clocks at about 1100mhz while a 670 Superclocked (yes I said a 670 not 680 and I'll explain why) .stock is about 960mhz, FTW version is 1024mhz and a regular 670 is 928mhz. . However the price for a 7970 GHZ is the same as a regular 670. So whos fault is it that AMD offers more at that price point? Besides the real advantage AMD has isnt the core clock but the memory bandwidth which again, who's fault is it hat nVidia chose to go with a lower bandwidth even after they had months to study the competition?
4. You may think you know computers, but leave cars out of this because that would be my domain. Comparing a six figure Ferrari, an exotic supercar, to a 15k smart car, an metro mobile, is nothing like comparing a 450 dollar card to a 445 dollar card. work on better analogies please.
You're clearly a fanboy which is fine, you like what you like, but don't try to discredit evidence that you chose the losing side just because your feelings are hurt. If it makes you feel any better AMD still sucks HARD in the CPU realm and sadly they're next chipset, 1090FX , still wont support PICe 3.0 (what the hell AMD?) so let them have this victory and hope that nVidia steps it up with the GTX 7xx series. I know I'm looking forward to it.thumb.gif

1) Actually, I own a computer business and the 7990 is NOT as available nor mainstream as the 690...Case in point, I have 2 7990's in stock compared to 10 or so stocked up 690's...So, from a vendor, no, no, you're wrong.

2) Again, what's it matter? If you're doing a review, statistics actually matter...If you're going to choose a card that's STOCK OC is 15% over retail then you do the same exact thing (if the option is available) to the other-side regardless of cost...Again, we're talking about a 20% increase in cost for arguably a 20%+ increase in performance...Which, ironically, you would've seen if this test was done right.

3) I don't care what a 670 superclocked does, it's not a 680...The cores don't match...I mean, are you a competent human being that's capable of reading a stats sheet or?...Because they're 2 completely different platforms.

4) I do know computers but, I also know cars...So, let me actually make a realistic comparison.

This is taking a 1994 Nissan Skyline GTR Nismo Z VS. a 1994 2.0 GT...In fact, that's exactly what this comparison was. Stock VS, custom bored and stroked w/a twin...Who wins?

Also, I'm actually NOT a fanboy...I build what the customer wants and right now my gaming rig has 4x7970's so, think again there chief...Simply put, I'd rather something be fair and levied as opposed to biased and ignorant.
post #163 of 252
BTW, looks like new Nvidia drivers are out (310.64) which improves performance(according to them). This could close the gap a bit. Its amazing how close AMD and Nvidia are in performance this generation and how far are they willing to push driver support..
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post #164 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

1) Actually, I own a computer business and the 7990 is NOT as available nor mainstream as the 690...Case in point, I have 2 7990's in stock compared to 10 or so stocked up 690's...So, from a vendor, no, no, you're wrong.

Sounds to me like someone is a little biased in their stocking practices tongue.gif. If you go online you an find a 7990 just as easy as the 690....well I can anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

2) Again, what's it matter? If you're doing a review, statistics actually matter...If you're going to choose a card that's STOCK OC is 15% over retail then you do the same exact thing (if the option is available) to the other-side regardless of cost...Again, we're talking about a 20% increase in cost for arguably a 20%+ increase in performance...Which, ironically, you would've seen if this test was done right.

20%+ performace boost? Are we talking real world application or merely benchmark scores? If we're talking stricly performance then no, you're paying 20% more to be slower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

3) I don't care what a 670 superclocked does, it's not a 680...The cores don't match...I mean, are you a competent human being that's capable of reading a stats sheet or?...Because they're 2 completely different platforms.
I know its a different core, but if you wanna compare two cards, then you can't compare a $450 card to a $550 card. And the core clock on a 680 FTW is still slower than the 7970 GHZ for $100 more. I read specs very well, in fact i've been doing nothing but reading up on video cards for the last two months as I'm building a new system for x-mas. On paper even, the 7970 still beats the 680 as far as performace. Benchmarking however the 680 does have the upper hand... good for them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

4) I do know computers but, I also know cars...So, let me actually make a realistic comparison.
This is taking a 1994 Nissan Skyline GTR Nismo Z VS. a 1994 2.0 GT...In fact, that's exactly what this comparison was. Stock VS, custom bored and stroked w/a twin...Who wins?
Also, I'm actually NOT a fanboy...I build what the customer wants and right now my gaming rig has 4x7970's so, think again there chief...Simply put, I'd rather something be fair and levied as opposed to biased and ignorant.

Ok how bout I help you out with this one.....it's like comparing a Mine's Skyline GT-R against a stock Supra twin turbo. (better right?) and I get your point with that but if the mine's skyline cost the same as the stock supra then who's really at fault here? It may seem unfair but at the end of the day people want the best value and simply put AMD has the best VALUE when it comes to $/Performance. And for the record trying to find "fair and balanced" on the inter-webs is a pipe-dream lol. All you can do is sift through the BS and make up your own mind....
Edited by DownshiftArtist - 11/28/12 at 7:26am
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post #165 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Rat View Post

BTW, looks like new Nvidia drivers are out (310.64) which improves performance(according to them). This could close the gap a bit. Its amazing how close AMD and Nvidia are in performance this generation and how far are they willing to push driver support..

Nvidia always releases performance drivers. The thing is that most are just rubbish. AMD driver 12.11 where actual performance drivers working with the architecture of the card and not the games.
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post #166 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhill2029 View Post

I'm not one to admit this usually as i'm a huge Nvidia fan and have been for more than 15years. But.....the 7970 seriously kicks butt in my opinion, i owned the GTX680's and for me they were incredibly efficient for power consumption and temperatures but not much else. The memory interface is weak, the vram is decent but far from ideal for surround resolutions. And it's performance even though is solid, simply doesn't match up to the 7970.
After recieiving my 1st 7970 i have to say it's leaps and bounds better than a GTX680, everything is way smoother and FPS is quite a lot faster on average on all the games and benchies i've tested. I was doubtful at 1st, as i always take online reviews/tests with a grain of salt, but upon owning one and testing for myself....i made the right decision.
Whether i will continue to use AMD in future is highly likely given what AMD have managed to produce with this generation. Any other generation i was glad i went Nvidia, but the current generation....it's the 7970 hands down.

Agreed. I was Nvidia before i went AMD. But my 7970 that has a komodo block on it is beautiful. Never had driver issues from the day i bought it. Nvidia better bring something amazing to the table that will make me go nvidia. If not i'll get 2 more 7970's and call it a day or if AMD comes out with something much more powerful then the 7970.
    
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post #167 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownshiftArtist View Post

Sounds to me like someone is a little biased in their stocking practices tongue.gif. If you go online you an find a 7990 just as easy as the 690....well I can anyway
20%+ performace boost? Are we talking real world application or merely benchmark scores? If we're talking stricly performance then no, you're paying 20% more to be slower.
I know its a different core, but if you wanna compare two cards, then you can't compare a $450 card to a $550 card. And the core clock on a 680 FTW is still slower than the 7970 GHZ for $100 more. I read specs very well, in fact i've been doing nothing but reading up on video cards for the last two months as I'm building a new system for x-mas. On paper even, the 7970 still beats the 680 as far as performace. Benchmarking however the 680 does have the upper hand... good for them
Ok how bout I help you out with this one.....it's like comparing a Mine's Skyline GT-R against a stock Supra twin turbo. (better right?) and I get your point with that but if the mine's skyline cost the same as the stock supra then who's really at fault here? It may seem unfair but at the end of the day people want the best value and simply put AMD has the best VALUE when it comes to $/Performance. And for the record trying to find "fair and balanced" on the inter-webs is a pipe-dream lol. All you can do is sift through the BS and make up your own mind....

Regardless of application in real world or gaming, it's still an Overclocked core vs Stock core...Of course there will be a performance deficit (regardless of cost).

Why can't you compare a $450 core to a $550 core...We compare $1k computers to $5k computers all the time...In fact, that's all 3/4 of this message board does...I don't quite see how an unbiased reviewer can skimp on fairness, regardless of price point...The review wasn't the best cards for under $600, the review was "the best cards available"...a "generation test" of which, it clearly wasn't.

The 7970 is actually a better card all around for general purpose use but, in gaming, it does loose when compared OC to OC...That's something you don't see here...You see an apparent core vs core comparison when it's actually OC core vs stock core...Which, like I said is unfair...Regardless of price point.

When one makes a review, like Car & Driver for example OR even Top Gear, there's a genuine comparison vs cars of ALL PRICE POINTS because that's unbiased and what the real world wants...That's the entire reason why races are based on their engine class...You as the reviewer have the ONUS to review everything available especially when that's what you state the REVIEW IS...Which, again, they failed.

Yes the Supra is a better comparison in theory but, you're still not giving a fair comparison to the end user...You are providing a car of equal "value" to the end user but, what if I'd rather have a Nissan than a Toyota...I now have biased information that doesn't actually cover the Nismo-Z...What if I want that limited edition engine w/a stroked twin? That's my choice to make, not yours, not TS's and certainly not a reviewers...regardless of price point.

I will absolutely say the 7970 is a better value, is a better card in certain aspects...But, that's not up to me or you...That's up to the client and with this review, the client is given incredibly bad information because TS is lazy...Or ignorant...Pick one.

Again, I'm staking my claim on fairness and a non-biased review, nothing more, nothing less.
post #168 of 252
Any chance nVidia will release some kick ass drivers similar to AMD's 12.11?
post #169 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by alawadhi3000 View Post

At 1920X1200 and on average, the GTX660 Ti was %6.9 faster than the HD7870, while the HD7870 is also %6.9 faster than the GTX660.
So according to the review, its EXACTLY in the middle, not like what you say. thumb.gif

GTX 660 at this moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600030348%20600315498%20600364399&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20
Lowest price: $229.99

HD 7870 at this moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600286767%20600298540&IsNodeId=1&name=Radeon%20HD%207870%20GHz%20Edition
Lowest Price: $239.99

GTX 660 Ti at this moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600030348%20600315498%20600311818&IsNodeId=1&name=GeForce%20GTX%20660%20Ti
Lowest Price: $274.99

If what you say is correct, then that makes the HD 7870 the value leader of the three. It may be in the middle of benchmarks (even though it isn't really, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.), but once you factor in price, the HD 7870 is clearly ahead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Actually, I have a tremendous amount of issues with the TS "head to head".
The 7970 is not the king. Not by a long shot. In fact, the 7990 doesn't exist mainstream because the cores couldn't hack it.
In the same notion, 690 right now is the best single card, retail, that money can buy...That's just a fact, jack.
There are MANY reasons as to why a dual GPU card is often a better solution then a single and with the latest drivers, the 690 is actually on par with 2x680's so...I find the staff comments from TS to be outrageous and uniformed.
Another issue I have with the review is a simple one, Techspot ran an OVERCLOCKED VERSION OF THE AMD CARD AGAINST A STOCK VERSION OF THE NVIDIA CARD.
For me, right there, considering the 15% stock OC the AMD card has, the entire test is invalidated. If you're not willing to OC a 680 or get an MSI GHZ edition to go head to head at the same stats...You're either ignorant or extremely bias...Or stupid.
Statistics matter...And they've broken practically every rule of statistics with this review...There is no fair comparison of like cards...They're not using the best retail of what's actually available...They're not even comparing at the same clock speeds much less, like-cards.
At this rate, we might as well start racing Ferraris against Smart-Cars and calling it legit because they're the best of what retail had to offer.
Lost all respect for Techspot...Not that there was much, anyway.

Where to start on this one:

"The 7970 is not king." You're right. The 7970 Ghz Edition is. thumb.gif
"In the same notion, 690 is the best single card, retail, that money can buy." Actually, it looks like it's split between the 690 and the 7990 depending on the game. thumb.gif
"Another issue I have with the review is a simple one, Techspot ran an OVERCLOCKED VERSION OF THE AMD CARD AGAINST A STOCK VERSION OF THE NVIDIA CARD." Last time I checked, the HD 7970 Ghz Edition is a stock clocked card. It's a refresh of sorts, but that's definitely a 24/7 speed. On top of that, you can get a 7970 Ghz Ed. for the same price as a stock 680. I think that's the point that really matters.

The rest of your post is rather repetitive, so I'll go ahead and clear this up.
Nvidia has priced themselves out of the current competition at every level. THAT IS A FACT! In fact, price is the only concern once performance is out of the way, and for a single GPU card, AMD takes it pretty handily on both price AND performance. Why do you not understand this? Surely you understand the notion of best bang for your buck, right? AMD has it. You can skew the results and attempt to discredit TS as much as you want, but when the smoke clears, the HD 7970 Ghz Ed. is the fastest STOCK CLOCKED single GPU card on the planet.
Everest - Intel
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Everest - Intel
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4790k Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 7 MSI Geforce GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X 16GB (2x8) Patriot Viper 1866Mhz  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate 3TB, WD 500GB HDD, WD 640GB HD Samsung 850 EVO 512GB Samsung DVD-Burner Corsair H110 w/ Dual Aerocool DS 140mm fans 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 Pro Dell S2716DG (1440p, 144hz Gsync) AOC U3477 PQU (3440x1440 IPS) Logitech G810 Orion Spectrum 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Evga SuperNOVA 750 G2 NZXT Phantom 530 Black Logitech G502 Proteus Core Corsair MM400 
AudioAudioAudio
Creative Sound Blaster E5 DAC/AMP Sennheiser HD 598 Headphones HyperX Cloud Headset 
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post #170 of 252
Masked - The 7970 GE is the fastest single GPU on the planet and cheaper then Nvidia's offering so get over yourself.
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