Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › Asus VG248QE 144hz 1ms TN 1080p
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Asus VG248QE 144hz 1ms TN 1080p - Page 87

post #861 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by harsin View Post

That's unfortunate. I was hoping the colors would look just like any typical TN panel at 144hz.

Does anyone know of a high refresh panel that does not have a change in gamma levels when changing refresh rates?

You can reverse any change in gamma level, it isn't hard you know.

This really is like any other TN.
The Ghost
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500k MSI P67a GD53 GTX 680 Corsair LP 2x4GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green 1.5TB Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD SATA III Crucial M4 256GB Gelid Tranquilo rev 2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit BenQ XL2411T CM Storm Quickfire Rapid MX Brown w/ stock blac... XFX Core edition 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 550D Zowie AM, Steelseries Xai Steelseries 9HD/QCK Sennheiser PC360 w/ Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 
  hide details  
Reply
The Ghost
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500k MSI P67a GD53 GTX 680 Corsair LP 2x4GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green 1.5TB Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD SATA III Crucial M4 256GB Gelid Tranquilo rev 2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit BenQ XL2411T CM Storm Quickfire Rapid MX Brown w/ stock blac... XFX Core edition 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 550D Zowie AM, Steelseries Xai Steelseries 9HD/QCK Sennheiser PC360 w/ Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #862 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

You can reverse any change in gamma level, it isn't hard you know.

This really is like any other TN.

There is no gamma control on the OSD. And I have tried to calibrate it using software (Windows 7 display color calibrator and Nvidia control panel). I could not correct it to an acceptable level.
post #863 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

You can reverse any change in gamma level, it isn't hard you know.

This really is like any other TN.

It isn't quite as simple as that. If you modify gamma settings in Windows then the GPU is told to shift coordinates from point A to point B. By moving the monitor away from its native settings (whatever is set with little effort on the OSD) you begin to eat away at contrast and shade range too. In fact you can see this quite clearly by going here and modifying the gamma slider in the GPU driver. And whilst this shifts the position of the gamma curve, it doesn't change the shape. It shifts all parts of the gamma curve by the same amount and can't specifically target and correct different sections. If you see just how whacky the gamma curves are on the VG248QE at 144Hz you'll understand this doesn't have any positive effect at all.

To modify gamma properly you'd be using an ICC profile, created by a colorimeter/spectrophotometer or similar device. This needs to make fairly significant changes given the wonky gamma setup on the ASUS. Coupled with the changes in absolute colour values there is certainly a hit in contrast (perceived across all shades and measurable as a decrease in overall brightness at a given black level). There are also instances of banding as shade range is reduced. Games have completely their own agenda when it comes to such changes. There is absolutely no substitute for correct setup through the monitor's OSD and unfortunately ASUS have messed it up. At 60Hz everything is as good as you'll see on a matte TN panel monitor. As the refresh rate increases things get increasingly iffy. More information, of course, in my upcoming review.
Edited by PCM2 - 5/28/14 at 1:15am
post #864 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

There used to be more glossy TN's a few years ago (2007-2009). I remember seeing both matte and glossy versions of some LG's & Acer's, Dell offered a few popular glossy TN's (2208wfp, SP2309W) as did HP (2408, 2509B, 2511x [2011]).

It seemed like there was a resurgence when the 120hz displays started coming out (Asus VG236H, Samsung S2xA700D, 750D and 950D), hopefully Samsung will continue to offer glossy 1xxhz models. Since the matte coatings have been reduced on the new IPS monitors I wouldn't be to surprised if some new glossy & semi-glossy 144hz Alienware, LG and Acer models show up later this year.

You know what is funny; out of all of the display types, TN panels are the ones that benefit the most from being glossy to-boot.
Zybane
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6950X - 4.5 GHz Edition 10 Rampage V Extreme Titan Xp  G.Skill 32GB 3200 MHz CL14 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1TB - Samsung SM961 Windows 10 Pro OLED 4K 55" LG C7P Razer BlackWidow TE Stealth Chroma 
PowerMouseAudioAudio
Corsair AX1500i 1500W Titanium Razer Mamba TE Denon AVR-X7200WA Elac BS 312 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Sennheiser HD-700 Headphones Velodyne MiniVee Subwoofer Buttkicker LFE Razer Orbweaver Stealth Chroma 
  hide details  
Reply
Zybane
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6950X - 4.5 GHz Edition 10 Rampage V Extreme Titan Xp  G.Skill 32GB 3200 MHz CL14 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1TB - Samsung SM961 Windows 10 Pro OLED 4K 55" LG C7P Razer BlackWidow TE Stealth Chroma 
PowerMouseAudioAudio
Corsair AX1500i 1500W Titanium Razer Mamba TE Denon AVR-X7200WA Elac BS 312 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Sennheiser HD-700 Headphones Velodyne MiniVee Subwoofer Buttkicker LFE Razer Orbweaver Stealth Chroma 
  hide details  
Reply
post #865 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

It isn't quite as simple as that. If you modify gamma settings in Windows then the GPU is told to shift coordinates from point A to point B. By moving the monitor away from its native settings (whatever is set with little effort on the OSD) you begin to eat away at contrast and shade range too. In fact you can see this quite clearly by going here and modifying the gamma slider in the GPU driver. And whilst this shifts the position of the gamma curve, it doesn't change the shape. It shifts all parts of the gamma curve by the same amount and can't specifically target and correct different sections. If you see just how whacky the gamma curves are on the VG248QE at 144Hz you'll understand this doesn't have any positive effect at all.

To modify gamma properly you'd be using an ICC profile, created by a colorimeter/spectrophotometer or similar device. This needs to make fairly significant changes given the wonky gamma setup on the ASUS. Coupled with the changes in absolute colour values there is certainly a hit in contrast (perceived across all shades and measurable as a decrease in overall brightness at a given black level). There are also instances of banding as shade range is reduced. As covered in this article games have completely their own agenda when it comes to such changes. There is absolutely no substitute for correct setup through the monitor's OSD and unfortunately ASUS have messed it up. At 60Hz everything is as good as you'll see on a matte TN panel monitor. As the refresh rate increases things get increasingly iffy. More information, of course, in my upcoming review.

I absolutely agree that the gamma curve is terrible, but I thought this was the same for all TN panels - that you can bludgeon them via various settings into giving for example good colours at one end of the spectrum at the cost of the other end? I am using the XL2411T (same panel as the Asus but obviously different processing added by BenQ)

I accept I'm probably wrong though, I did personally think it wasn't any worse than my VG278HE or my VG278H but perhaps there is a difference I would notice going back to those monitors. No other TN to compare to at the moment, currently using my XL2411T on 144Hz and the colours do look fine, gamma is pretty good according to http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php after I selected gamma 4 in the OSD. In usage colours are deep and look good, although the gamma shift as you change your viewing angle vertically is just huge - probably the most annoying aspect when on the Windows desktop web browsing etc. Sure that is the same for all TNs though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harsin View Post

There is no gamma control on the OSD. And I have tried to calibrate it using software (Windows 7 display color calibrator and Nvidia control panel). I could not correct it to an acceptable level.

Can't remember how I did it eventually, I had trouble initially trying to set Windows colour calibrator and Nvidia control panel to make it pass the Lagom.nl tests, but for my XL2411T (same panel as the Asus) once I set it to gamma 4 in the OSD that basically fixed the garbage gamma curve, and after lowering the gamma slider in Nvidia control panel alone, I now have it almost bang on 2.2 in all three tests at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php
Edited by hamzatm - 2/17/13 at 10:32am
The Ghost
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500k MSI P67a GD53 GTX 680 Corsair LP 2x4GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green 1.5TB Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD SATA III Crucial M4 256GB Gelid Tranquilo rev 2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit BenQ XL2411T CM Storm Quickfire Rapid MX Brown w/ stock blac... XFX Core edition 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 550D Zowie AM, Steelseries Xai Steelseries 9HD/QCK Sennheiser PC360 w/ Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 
  hide details  
Reply
The Ghost
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500k MSI P67a GD53 GTX 680 Corsair LP 2x4GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green 1.5TB Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD SATA III Crucial M4 256GB Gelid Tranquilo rev 2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit BenQ XL2411T CM Storm Quickfire Rapid MX Brown w/ stock blac... XFX Core edition 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 550D Zowie AM, Steelseries Xai Steelseries 9HD/QCK Sennheiser PC360 w/ Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #866 of 2231
You're quite right about the shift in gamma (and colours more generally), that's a characteristic of TN panels. Whatever gamma and colour values you get in the centre (i.e. what the colorimeter is telling you) will be a bit different at various points of the screen. The differences are not so profound as to counteract an overall dip in gamma though. If you are getting 1.8 in the centre (for example) and there are certain characteristics to the curve the pattern still follows everywhere on the screen - it sets the baseline, really. Some areas will be slightly 'richer' simply due to viewing angle limitations but the overall scene will look dull and washed out.

The XL2411T isn't as bad as the VG248QE in that regard (gamma tracking) although is actually poorer than the VG248QE running 'Standard Mode' at 60Hz. It also has the Black eQ in standard mode which selectively interferes with the low-end of the curve - that's something you can't fix using the OSD or graphics drivers. The difference in overall colour richness running the ASUS at 60Hz and 144Hz is profound and it almost seems to be a bug. The BenQ doesn't have this odd discrepancy.
Edited by PCM2 - 2/17/13 at 11:03am
post #867 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

You're quite right about the shift in gamma (and colours more generally), that's a characteristic of TN panels. Whatever gamma and colour values you get in the centre (i.e. what the colorimeter is telling you) will be a bit different at various points of the screen. The differences are not so profound as to counteract an overall dip in gamma though. If you are getting 1.8 in the centre (for example) and there are certain characteristics to the curve the pattern still follows everywhere on the screen - it sets the baseline, really. Some areas will be slightly 'richer' simply due to viewing angle limitations but the overall scene will look dull and washed out.

The XL2411T isn't as bad as the VG248QE in that regard (gamma tracking) although is actually poorer than the VG248QE running 'Standard Mode' at 60Hz. It also has the Black eQ in standard mode which selectively interferes with the low-end of the curve - that's something you can't fix using the OSD or graphics drivers. The difference in overall colour richness running the ASUS at 60Hz and 144Hz is profound and it almost seems to be a bug. The BenQ doesn't have this odd discrepancy.

Would ICC profiles help, I saw you had some on your website but there are none for the XL2411T if I'm not mistaken?
The Ghost
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500k MSI P67a GD53 GTX 680 Corsair LP 2x4GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green 1.5TB Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD SATA III Crucial M4 256GB Gelid Tranquilo rev 2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit BenQ XL2411T CM Storm Quickfire Rapid MX Brown w/ stock blac... XFX Core edition 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 550D Zowie AM, Steelseries Xai Steelseries 9HD/QCK Sennheiser PC360 w/ Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 
  hide details  
Reply
The Ghost
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500k MSI P67a GD53 GTX 680 Corsair LP 2x4GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD Caviar Green 1.5TB Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD SATA III Crucial M4 256GB Gelid Tranquilo rev 2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit BenQ XL2411T CM Storm Quickfire Rapid MX Brown w/ stock blac... XFX Core edition 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 550D Zowie AM, Steelseries Xai Steelseries 9HD/QCK Sennheiser PC360 w/ Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #868 of 2231
I remember someone mentioning that the VG248QE came with an ICC profile and applying it really helped with the colors a few pages back.
Dr. Tesla
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4770k MSI Z87 MPOWER MAX Zotac GTX 980 Ti AMP! Extreme Patriot Viper 3 Series, Sapphire Blue Edition D... 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Corsair H80 Windows 7 Ultimate X-Star DP2710 Glossy Qnix QX2710 Matte 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Viewsonic VP2780-4K HP 25er Razer Black Widow Ultimate Antec HCP 1200w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Lian Li PC-P80 Razer Lachesis Roccat Sense Glacier Blue Beyerdynamic T90 Jubilee 
Audio
Essence HDACC 
  hide details  
Reply
Dr. Tesla
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4770k MSI Z87 MPOWER MAX Zotac GTX 980 Ti AMP! Extreme Patriot Viper 3 Series, Sapphire Blue Edition D... 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Corsair H80 Windows 7 Ultimate X-Star DP2710 Glossy Qnix QX2710 Matte 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Viewsonic VP2780-4K HP 25er Razer Black Widow Ultimate Antec HCP 1200w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Lian Li PC-P80 Razer Lachesis Roccat Sense Glacier Blue Beyerdynamic T90 Jubilee 
Audio
Essence HDACC 
  hide details  
Reply
post #869 of 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

Would ICC profiles help, I saw you had some on your website but there are none for the XL2411T if I'm not mistaken?

As mentioned a bit above it isn't ideal for games but it could help in some titles and would definitely help on the desktop. I'll be including some for the VG248QE. Unfortunately the ones for the XL2411T got lost somewhere along the line and I never uploaded them. I'm sure some other users have created some you could use though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

I remember someone mentioning that the VG248QE came with an ICC profile and applying it really helped with the colors a few pages back.

The ICC profile provided with the monitor doesn't seem to change much for me. Tested on an Nvidia and AMD GPU and no real luck with it.
post #870 of 2231
I'm using an ICC profile posted on this thread which got me so much closer than my manual adjusting. It corrected a lot of my mistakes and a few obvious tweaks has it looking very good compared to out of the box and where it was.
Overkill
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k @ 4.625Ghz ASUS Rampage V Extreme GTX 1080 Ti 32GB G.Skill RIPJAWS 3200Mhz CL14 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 750 400GB Samsung 850 Pro 512GB Samsung 850 EVO 500GB WD Black 4TB 7200RPM 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Hitachi 2TB 7200RPM Corsair H80i GT Windows 10 Professional Acer Predator X34 3440x1440 100hz IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer BlackWidow Chroma Corsair RM1000i SilverStone RV02 Razer DeathAdder 3G 
AudioAudioAudio
TEAC HA-501 HRT Music Streamer II+ DAC Sennheiser HD650 
  hide details  
Reply
Overkill
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k @ 4.625Ghz ASUS Rampage V Extreme GTX 1080 Ti 32GB G.Skill RIPJAWS 3200Mhz CL14 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 750 400GB Samsung 850 Pro 512GB Samsung 850 EVO 500GB WD Black 4TB 7200RPM 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Hitachi 2TB 7200RPM Corsair H80i GT Windows 10 Professional Acer Predator X34 3440x1440 100hz IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer BlackWidow Chroma Corsair RM1000i SilverStone RV02 Razer DeathAdder 3G 
AudioAudioAudio
TEAC HA-501 HRT Music Streamer II+ DAC Sennheiser HD650 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Monitors and Displays
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › Asus VG248QE 144hz 1ms TN 1080p