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post #141 of 305
Just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate the minds of the stupid and rich for paying so much money on overpriced smart phones.

Marketing conquers all.
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post #142 of 305
Well, I guess that if the "Apple's Yearly Profits Surmounts Entire PC Industry" statement is true, that basically means that Apple doesn't make "Personal Computers".
post #143 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuackPot View Post

Just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate the minds of the stupid and rich for paying so much money on overpriced smart phones.
Marketing conquers all.

Most people get their phones on contract, at which point a good number of Android phones cost the same if not more. tongue.gif
post #144 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

The only reason people are saying this is because the patent office/system failed. Every company files similar patents for anything they make, most get denied because of the obvious. The patent office screws up or favors(?) Apple and now Apple is the devil incarnate?
If you want to blame anyone for the above aforementioned patent, blame the one who gave it to Apple.
And patenting round corners is not in itself patent trolling. If they were to go sue every company with said patent, that would be. But they have yet, to my knowledge, actually used the patent to do so. People just think having it means they automatically will.

Apple is horrible for even trying to patent something so mundane. The whole "It's the patent office's fault" only goes so far. There's a thing called decency, and it means that you shouldn't do things just because you can. Mercedes didn't patent the car, because it was too obvious (it was a carriage with a motor). No one went out and patented the whole "folding computer" idea (i.e. generic laptop design), even though several could have (Toshiba, for one). Nokia didn't patent the whole "mobile phone with buttons on the front" either. Why? Because these companies thought the ideas were too generic - and rightfully so. They also knew it would be seen as incredibly asinine. Meanwhile Apple thinks its just fine to patent ROUND CORNERS, laptops which are thicker at the back than at the front (wedge shape), and slide to unlock. NONE of which they invented. Yes, the patent system allowed it to happen, but Apple tried. The person who fires to gun is guilty, not the one that provided the bullet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

they funded the development of the screen used in the rmbp and ipad. because of this they got exclusive contracts for the production of these products. so more or less the same thing

The tech for that high DPI screens has been around for a LOOONG time way before Apple laptops even became mainstream. Back in 2007-2008 there were working 6mp monitors available to certain business sectors (mostly medical). The only thing apple did was take existing tech, and general advancements in production, and put it into a laptop.
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post #145 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

Yes, the patent system allowed it to happen, but Apple tried. The person who fires to gun is guilty, not the one that provided the bullet.
.

Well you just agreed to my point. Apple provided the bullet ( patent ), and the patent office fired the gun ( approved the patent ).

And yes EVERY company out there files and tries for stupid patents all alike. They just aren't usually approved, thus we never really hear about them. But there are still tons of idiotic patents granted for much dumber things than rounded corners. As I said a few posts up, go take a look at patents that have been approved, they're public. You'll be surprised.
post #146 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

There's a thing called decency, and it means that you shouldn't do things just because you can.

There's a thing called business. If you don't patent it, someone else will.
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post #147 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

Apple is horrible for even trying to patent something so mundane. The whole "It's the patent office's fault" only goes so far. There's a thing called decency, and it means that you shouldn't do things just because you can. Mercedes didn't patent the car, because it was too obvious (it was a carriage with a motor). No one went out and patented the whole "folding computer" idea (i.e. generic laptop design), even though several could have (Toshiba, for one). Nokia didn't patent the whole "mobile phone with buttons on the front" either. Why? Because these companies thought the ideas were too generic - and rightfully so. They also knew it would be seen as incredibly asinine. Meanwhile Apple thinks its just fine to patent ROUND CORNERS, laptops which are thicker at the back than at the front (wedge shape), and slide to unlock. NONE of which they invented. Yes, the patent system allowed it to happen, but Apple tried. The person who fires to gun is guilty, not the one that provided the bullet.
The tech for that high DPI screens has been around for a LOOONG time way before Apple laptops even became mainstream. Back in 2007-2008 there were working 6mp monitors available to certain business sectors (mostly medical). The only thing apple did was take existing tech, and general advancements in production, and put it into a laptop.

sure but a lot of those monitors are so slow they only work for still images and could not properly even function in a normal desktop environment.
post #148 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulli85 View Post

Remind me to PM you in 2 years.
No matter how much "Apple hate" there is here at OCN the fact of the matter is Apple keeps innovating and keeps releasing quality products. And for the record my laptop is a MacBook but I use Windows 7 on it.

innovating? what innovation have they done besides patent vague shapes and swipe to unlock? also, apple deserves this fiscal success because they market well. People want to be liked and be cool and they think owning apple things is the way to do it.
 
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post #149 of 305
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolsmasher View Post

Nah, same ideas that were just improved upon....just like you said.
Both transport you from A to B.
Both play music.

Both have a circle with play, stop, ff and rewind buttons on them ... although Apple did "innovate" the design by putting the play button down on the bottom instead of on top. wink.gif

Both had an LCD display.

Etc, etc, etc.

Heck, Apple even STOLE the "rounded corner rectangle" from the RIO ... now they sue everyone out there that has a "rounded corner rectangle" device because somehow they got the patent.

What made the iPod a success was marketing, not for much else.

Look, I don't like Apple's walled garden philosophy, but I understand that many people just want that kind of experience.

And when it comes to the iPod, I must disagree with you. The Rio, just like many other industry hallmarks, was just the start. Just like the first car wasn't very practical to use. I bet many people who drive manual cars couldn't handle the overly complicated gearboxes of the first cars. At a certain point in history some advancements are made, and if they are all rolled into one nice looking package, it will be its own thing by merit.

Let's compare the two:

Rio:

- 32 MB (later 64MB) of flash storage, enough to store 30 minutes of MP3 at 128kbps;

- It did have a SmartMedia slot to increase storage space, but Flash memory cards were very expensive in 1998, and still in 2001 when the iPod was launched, and you couldn't even dream of having 5 GB of flash storage (the original iPod's HDD capacity);

- The circle on it is just decorative;

- You had to connect it to the PC through the parallel port (512Kbps), which means super slow transfer (truth be told, you didn't have 5 gigabytes to fill like the iPod, but even so);

- The battery cover is flimsy (see the Wikipedia article on it);

- The LCD displayed the track number being played, but did not display artist or title information.


iPod:

- 5 gigabytes of space, enough to store 1000 MP3s at 160 kbps, with 20 minutes of skip protection, effectively making it possible for you to be on the move / take it outside like a flash based player;

- the circle is actually functional and allows you quickly scroll through your music collection;

- the iPod connects to a computer through Firewire, which allowed you to transfer 1000 MP3 in 10 minutes, versus 5 hours for USB 1.1 (USB 2.0 had been released by 2001, but it wasn't widely adopted yet, Intel, for example, only released chipsets with USB 2.0 support in May of 2002)

- sturdy construction;

- the LCD displayed a lot more information than the Rio;


So, the iPod had lots of space, was very functional, even as a large capacity harddrive, and you could transfer your music / data quickly, and, of course, it was very well marketed, but the product itself had a lot of merit. Apple has until now had success because they have been able to identify when a certain set of technologies has become viable to put in a product and have been able to integrate sometimes many of them at once in order to give you a good experience, in a single product. This sense of timing and delivering a good product and experience is what makes Apple's success, along with great marketing.



Take the iPhone, for example. If was released in 2007, the same year as the Nokia N95, which is the phone I'm still using (very sturdy, despite some initial concerns that the slider mechanism might fail after some use, I've had mine since the beginning of 2008 and the slider mechanism is working just as if it were new, and I did take it to the beach quite a few times and in one or two occasions sand got into it making it not work so well, but blowing the sand away with your mouth put it back to work just like before), and I have to say, I perfectly understand why the iPhone was the success it was.

Let's compare the two:

Features: the Nokia N95 wins hands down, it has GPS, 3.5G, Wi-Fi, external storage, a 5 Megapixel camera with Carl-Zeiss lens and autofocus that can shoot DVD like quality movies, a front facing camera, and it even has an accelerometer. The first iPhone wasn't even a 3G phone and the camera only had 2 Megapixels without autofocus and couldn't shoot video at all, but it did some things right: Apple got touch screens right (even though I think there is a major downside to it, in that you now have to use both hands to use a smartphone, one to hold it and the other to control it, I can do both things on my N95 with only one hand. Ironically, Steve Jobs himself touted the fact you could use the iPod with one hand as an advantage, see the video above), and because the touchscreen by itself is not meaningful, they also had a slick UI, together with a best in class music player, along with a video player.

The Nokia N95, despite being the top of the line, had a slight hiss when listening to music with headphones (or speakers), that you could hear if you were in a quiet environment. Hardly important when you are on the street, but nevertheless, a top of the line equipment, also advertised for its media capabilities should not have this kind of flaw (it has dedicated media playback keys and comes with a 3.5mm headphone jack and includes a pair of headphones with a remote control - you can actually disconnect the bundled phones from the remote control section and connect your own headphones and keep the remote control).

Also, the iPhone's screen was much bigger, at 3.5 inches versus 2.6 inches for the Nokia N95, making watching video a viable option. The N95 also only had 64 MB of RAM, which meant that you would run out of memory when browsing many websites using the built-in webkit based browser, whereas the iPhone came with 128 MB of RAM (later, more than a year after having been released, Nokia released a firmware update that introduced demand paging, but even so, that only mitigated the out of memory problem, it was nowhere near solved, there just wasn't enough RAM). And then there were bugs. As I said, I got my Nokia N95 a year after it was released and it still had bugs, one of them being that the phone would many times crash when I plugged in the headphones. Nokia released a few updates after that and that bug was eventually fixed, but I remember people complaining about bugs. The N95 had a lot of hardware, but perhaps it wasn't done right. It used a lot of battery (later firmware upgrades, possibly two years after it was released, improved idle power consumption, for example). The GPS receiver, for example, was under the 0 key, which was not the best location, meaning you had to open the slider for it to have the best reception, not to mention that inside a car, that location meant it was the farthest away from the sky, and not in a good location in general because of the angle. They had to release the N95 8GB the same year to fix many of these problems (128 MB of RAM, fixing the hiss issue, which was a hardware problem, better location of the GPS receiver, bigger battery, bigger screen).

So, all in all, the iPhone didn't have anywhere near the same hardware capabilities as the Nokia N95, but I can perfectly understand why it was successful. They opted to do less, but what they chose to do, they did in arguably a more accomplished way.
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/28/12 at 9:29pm
 
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post #150 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsparky32 View Post

innovating? what innovation have they done besides patent vague shapes and swipe to unlock? also, apple deserves this fiscal success because they market well. People want to be liked and be cool and they think owning apple things is the way to do it.

That Galaxy Nexus you have... you only have a smartphone like that because of Apple essentially creating the smartphone market. Look at all the phones released in 2007 compared with the iPhone, they're worlds behind.

Apple innovate plenty. You know all those tablets for sale? Yeah, no iPad, no tablet market. Innovation.
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