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Artisan Shiden[Kai] Owner Survey - Page 3

post #21 of 31
I just bought a Zowie AM to test. This mouse for sure is not going to work with this pad at least at 1000Hz. At 500Hz it works better but it still can malfunction if you do circles quickly. So some games it is not usable. The sensor doesn't appear to perform as good as the EC Evo. I will have to buy a new mouse pad for this mouse.

I do not have my Zowie EC2 Evo right now to test again. I did get in a new original Zowie EC2 white. Haven't even opened it yet. But there is almost no point to test that since you can't really buy them new like I did/can. When I get the EC2 Evo back I will test it more on this pad.

As for the DeathAdder BE low CPI @ 500Hz it is usable for FPS games like BF3, CS, Tribes.

I'm not going to buy a G400 to test because I don't like the shape - I wouldn't use it.
Edited by popups - 11/30/12 at 9:11pm
post #22 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
Thanks for not giving me an intellectual answer.

Thanks for not taking the time to read the whole thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
Maybe your problem is your playing on the Quake engine?

Now you're not just insulting me alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
There is negative acceleration issues with that engine.

Really? Proof?
It is, perhaps, the best FPS engine ever created.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
Are you using raw input?

In Quake, yes.
In UT, I'm using DirectInput.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
If you rely on the game engine you could get acceleration issues and if you change your Windows sensitivity from the default 6 or are using mouse filtering/precision.

Don't take me for some complete newbie who has just walked in and played a FPS game for the first time in his life.
I am very aware of all these things.

I don't know what you 'rely' on.
But if relying on something like Enotus mouse test software is your idea of 'real world usage', then it is becoming clear why you are unable to detect anything wrong with the Artisan Shiden-Kai + DA/G400/Zowie AM/Spawn combo.


Stop trying to blame the shortcomings of the Shiden-Kai on everything else than the pad itself.
post #23 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phos View Post

.... as I have been able to find many mice that track very well on it.

Which mice are those?
Laser, all of them, correct?

I'm so in love with the Shiden-Kai's glide and softness that I'm considering compromising on the sensor itself (meaning going for laser), just so I can play with this pad.

Please let us know which mice work well on this pad, and how you tested them.

Thanks.
post #24 of 31
This is on the regular Shinden actually, the spawn with the 61 firmware, the G400, and Zowie's newer mice seem to perform fine. I measured the spawn and was able to almost hit 3 m/s.
    
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post #25 of 31
@dontspamme

I did read your thread and I took the time to answer your questions. I don't see why you have such an attitude. Maybe because it is the internet?

Since you been a professional gamer for so long why do I need to explain how the Quake engine can have negative acceleration if you use high CPI that is above your resolution? That is why the Intellimouse was the preferred mouse when playing Quake.

When I say real world usage I mean just playing the game without thinking about perfect control or negative acceleration. I don't try to make the mouse malfunction. I just play.

I actually may have a "different" DeathAdder than you. Right now I'm using my black edition with 0.7mm mouse feet. So that is likely different than yours.

I have a theory that taller mouse feet helps performance with the DeathAdder on this pad and maybe the Zowie EC Evo if it didn't have such low LOD on this pad. I say that because it could explain our different experience with this pad if you are using the stock feet as those are about 0.2mm and I am using 0.7mm. The feet on the EC Evo seem a little thicker than the AM because the bottom of the AM scrapes the pad. If the internals are the same (MCU etc) with the Evo and the AM that would explain why it doesn't work as well as the Evo. In other words it is possible that the light is reflecting differently and therefore changing the performance.

I keep asking what exactly does the mouse do that makes it unusable with this pad? I need a detailed account of your issues (malfunctions) so I can see if I can recreate it. You only said you tried all CPI settings with no details on how you made the mouse malfunction. Saying, "Yes, it was slightly better at lowest DPI. But still utterly unusable", doesn't explain anything of substance.
post #26 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
I did read your thread and I took the time to answer your questions. I don't see why you have such an attitude.

Reply to the original post in proper protocol next time.
You kept asking me about things I had already written in this thread.
You started the 'attitude'. Welcome to the Internet.

Only thing that annoys me here is that you seemingly are die-hard defending a pad that everyone but yourself agrees is not suited for the mice mentioned in my original post.
Furthermore, you are still to reveal to the world what exactly your 'real world usage' means. [again: refer to replying to the post in using proper protocol] [HINT HINT HINT: it's your sens and the game you play]

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
Since you been a professional gamer for so long...

I never claimed to be/have been a professional gamer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
... why do I need to explain how the Quake engine can have negative acceleration if you use high CPI that is above your resolution?

Proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
That is why the Intellimouse was the preferred mouse when playing Quake.

Yeah, there could not be any other reason why this particular mouse was - and still is - so beloved... rolleyes.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
When I say real world usage I mean just playing the game without thinking about perfect control or negative acceleration. I don't try to make the mouse malfunction. I just play.

Which is exactly the whole problem with all your posts in this thread.
We need SPECIFICS. That's why I formulated my original post the way I did. To avoid exactly such vague replies, which aren't helping any of us. In fact, they are only muddying the waters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
I actually may have a "different" DeathAdder than you. Right now I'm using my black edition with 0.7mm mouse feet. So that is likely different than yours.
I have a theory that taller mouse feet helps performance with the DeathAdder on this pad and maybe the Zowie EC Evo if it didn't have such low LOD on this pad. I say that because it could explain our different experience with this pad if you are using the stock feet as those are about 0.2mm and I am using 0.7mm.

So you are capable of posting specific information. Excellent!

I have tried with stock feet, Hyperglides, 'Hotline Games' Hurricane feet and as well as without any feet at all.
Neither seemed to have an impact on the performance with the Shiden-Kai here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

@dontspamme
I keep asking what exactly does the mouse do that makes it unusable with this pad? I need a detailed account of your issues (malfunctions) so I can see if I can recreate it. You only said you tried all CPI settings with no details on how you made the mouse malfunction. Saying, "Yes, it was slightly better at lowest DPI. But still utterly unusable", doesn't explain anything of substance.


Well, I assumed that would be clear to everybody, but OK:
The mice displayed massive amounts of 'negative' acceleration when making medium to fast swipes.
Some skipping occurred as well.

Sensitivities, games & settings have already been explained elsewhere in this thread.
post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontspamme View Post

Reply to the original post in proper protocol next time.

Furthermore, you are still to reveal to the world what exactly your 'real world usage' means. [again: refer to replying to the post in using proper protocol] [HINT HINT HINT: it's your sens and the game you play]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1332120/artisan-shiden-kai-owner-survey#post_18702443

Again, I already answered that.

I am not defending the Shiden-Kai. You would know that if you read the entire thread.

I won't post here again since I already said what needed to be said. I don't need to argue with someone who isn't intelligent, contradicts himself and just wants to argue over things he doesn't understand.
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontspamme View Post

PS: just tested with the Zowie AM, too.
It's the worst of the lot (as expected).
I also have a modified Zowie AM, where I have used a DA lens to achieve much higher LOD [it now works flawlessly on the Icemat].
This one did better than the standard Zowie, but still not as 'good' as the G400.
Again, none of them usable with the Shiden-Kai, unless you are a very high sens gamer - or you play a really slow game [which, I suspect, is the problem with users like popups, when they tell us that there is no issues with it in 'real world usage'].
To sum up:
If you play fast games like UT and Quake, then this pad is only for you if you have a fairly high mouse sensitivity.
If you play slower games like Counter-Strike, Call of Duty etc, you might be OK with it at lower sensitivities.
Of course, if you use a laser mouse, things might be entirely different.
I do not own a modern laser mouse I could test with.

I play quakelive and UT2k4 and UT3 with a G500 on lower and lowest DPI settings on a Shiden-kai and do pretty well.

dontspamme, I think you have an issue with separating your reality from the majority. You admitted that you have modified mice to gain better performance. The VAST, VAST majority of competitive gamers are not even going to crack the mouse open, they will simply buy the better mouse to begin with. With that said, your comments already have minimal impact on the rest of us, because you are comparing things at a level much higher and sophisticated than most of us will ever even approach. Not to say that your input isn't valuable, but you need to remember that most of the people reading this thread just want a better mouse pad than what they already have, they aren't typically looking to optimize their mouse and pad combo for 97% performance and efficiency increase.
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post #29 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by underdog1425 View Post

I play quakelive and UT2k4 and UT3 with a G500 on lower and lowest DPI settings on a Shiden-kai and do pretty well.
dontspamme....


That's nice. I'm not the slightest bit surprised that the Shiden-Kai performs well with your G500 - a laser sensor-based mouse, unlike the mice I've mentioned not working well with said mouse pad, which are all LED optical mice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by underdog1425 View Post

I think you have an issue with separating your reality from the majority.


Right, and I think you ought to show some decency and actually read the threads you reply to, before you come here and lecture me (and everyone else) on reality.
I've never claimed there are any issues with the Shiden-Kai when it comes to laser sensor mice. You would have known this, had you read the thread you just replied to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by underdog1425 View Post

You admitted that you have modified mice to gain better performance.

Admitted, huh? You almost make it sound like I've committed a felony. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by underdog1425 View Post

The VAST, VAST majority of competitive gamers are not even going to crack the mouse open, they will simply buy the better mouse to begin with.

... and this has to do with why LED sensor mice perform poorly on the Shiden-Kai, how exactly?
Actually, don't bother answering that. I won't return to read whatever reply you will have made. I sense you have little - or nothing - to contribute to this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by underdog1425 View Post

With that said, your comments already have minimal impact on the rest of us, because you are comparing things at a level much higher and sophisticated than most of us will ever even approach. Not to say that your input isn't valuable, but you need to remember that most of the people reading this thread just want a better mouse pad than what they already have, they aren't typically looking to optimize their mouse and pad combo for 97% performance and efficiency increase.

I don't see how this has anything to do with the fact that the Shiden-Kai simply does perform poorly with the mice I have mentioned.
Anyone using a low sensitivity - be they adept or inept with regards to mouse technology - who is playing a game that requires fast swipes, will end up getting burnt if they use the Artisan Shiden-Kai with the mice I have described.

Its a friendly warning, nothing more. I feel it does warrant warning, seeing the almost ridiculous prices Artisan charge.
I got burnt, and so did a few others I know.

I hear this pad is fine with laser sensors. I cannot confirm that, but I'll take people's word for it, for now at least.
Now, that brings in the whole discussion on whether current laser sensors are worth playing with. But that is up the inept to get suckered into - and thus a completely different topic, which this thread is not about.


Merry Christmas.
Edited by dontspamme - 12/25/12 at 11:23am
post #30 of 31
The G400 and Shidenkai (strawberry) DO NOT work together.

I play Tribes: Ascend and you cannot do any type of flick shots or very fast swipes. It malfunctions and malfunctions hard.

Do any other Artisan pads work with the G400?
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