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[Wired] Human Evolution Enters an Exciting New Phase - Page 4

post #31 of 69
Example of a beneficial mutation of an organism.

A Mutation allowing a bacterial strain to survive in the presence of a previously toxic antibiotic. This would be construed as beneficial to the survival of that certain strain of bacteria.

As someone with an extremely strong background in biochemistry and genetics, I would have to say that you are blatantly wrong in this situation, sorry.
 
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post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

Why would I be mad? You see, most people believe everything what they're being told. It's called being framed. I have my own brain and I think for myself.
You probably didn't even grasp the topic. Are you a troll?
Who are "we" in your quote? So if "we" say smoking crack is good, does that mean it's "normal"? I sure don't want to be a part of your "we".
Mutation can NOT be better than what there is already in the gene pool.
There is no good mutation. Mutation only has negative side to it unless of course, you have proof to illustrate?

Proof? sure...how do like your thumbs?

but we also have

Round up ready corn
Milk cows
Sorgum-sudan grass

All amazingly good genetic mutations that humans have promoted through breeding.

There are also things like anti-biotic resistant bacteria...bad for humans...really good for the bacteria.

I think you need to show proof that a mutation can only be bad. They can be bad, but they can also be good...they can also be neither and not really change anything. However they are certainly not just one way or the other.
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post #33 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Honestly, I see humans becoming natural selection...deciding which genes are passed on via gene sequencing, therapy, and other gene selection methods that don't exist yet. I am sure some will see this as immoral, but when they start to see other peoples' children that are smarter and stronger they will change their mind quickly. Plus I hope by the time this becomes easily possible that most people will have finally accepted it.

Kinda of like Gattaca, but that still wouldn't be "natural" selection, that's manual selection. Natural selection is too.... inconvenient to our own survival.
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post #34 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

Mutation can NOT be better than what there is already in the gene pool.
There is no good mutation. Mutation only has negative side to it unless of course, you have proof to illustrate?

it doesn't have to be in the gene pool already...

If a gene in one of your gametes changes a bit due to some mutagen, or maybe errors in copying of DNA and then that particular cell ends up in part creating the genome for a new human, that human has a chance of getting that mutated gene (depends of course if it's recessive etc.). Now that gene might have a negative effect, a positive effect or in the huge majority of cases it will not have any effect at all. But yes it can have a positive effect due to the random effect the mutagen/error in copying DNA had.

And please if they can't be positive, do tell how evolution actually works. How do bacteria get resistances to antibiotics so fast?
Edited by Alatar - 11/29/12 at 12:36pm
 
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post #35 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

You probably didn't even grasp the topic. Are you a troll?

I was wondering the same about you... wth.gif


But on the other hand, i believe i have a good grasp on the topic of discussion.
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post #36 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

To me, this just sounds like natural selection is going to eventually catch up and kill off the "weaker" human beings, rather than propel us into a superhuman race. The net gain is that we're a hardier species as a whole, but only as a result of a die-off.
And I do believe that we are in fact headed towards such a die-off. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but I see it as inevitable without some crucial technological and economical developments.
Really though, I don't think we should worry about natural selection and evolution. We're human beings. We write our own rules.

Zombies, if you don't have the resistant gene, you're a goner.
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post #37 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

Mutation can NOT be better than what there is already in the gene pool.
There is no good mutation. Mutation only has negative side to it unless of course, you have proof to illustrate?


Sickle Cell Anemia was a mutation.... it's postive where there's malaria, but negative elsewhere....


Mutations in of themselves are neither good nor bad... they just are.
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post #38 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

it doesn't have to be in the gene pool already...
If a gene in one of your gametes changes a bit due to some mutagen, or maybe errors in copying of DNA and then that particular cell ends up in part creating the genome for a new human, that human has a chance of getting that mutated gene (depends of course if it's recessive etc.). Now that gene might have a negative effect, a positive effect or in the huge majority of cases it will not have any effect at all. But yes it can have a positive effect due to the random effect the mutagen/error in copying DNA had.
And please if they can't be positive, do tell how evolution actually works. How do bacteria get resistances to antibiotics so fast?

If I learn something new and in the end I'm resistant to something, does that mean I'm mutating? No!

If bacteria has the capability to gather and analyze surrounding information, use that information and adapt to its surrounding for adaptation purposes, it should not be called mutation. Reason to that is because it didn't mutate. It gathered and learned new information. We human do that all the time. I avoid idiots and stupid drivers on the road; therefore, I'm resistant to them. It doesn't mean I mutated. That's the point I'm trying to make across.

From the science and logic perspective, the good mutation does NOT make any sense. Many of the so called mutations are simply put adaptations.
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post #39 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

If I learn something new and in the end I'm resistant to something, does that mean I'm mutating? No!
If bacteria has the capability to gather and analyze surrounding information, use that information and adapt to its surrounding for adaptation purposes, it should not be called mutation. Reason to that is because it didn't mutate. It gathered and learned new information. We human do that all the time. I avoid idiots and stupid drivers on the road; therefore, I'm resistant to them. It doesn't mean I mutated. That's the point I'm trying to make across.
From the science and logic perspective, the good mutation does NOT make any sense. Many of the so called mutations are simply put adaptations.

Oh my friend you need to go back to school. Bacteria dont "analyze" the surroundings to find a way to defend against antibiotics. That "new information" that you speak of is a change in its genotype. Their genes either get mutated to code for a new gene that allows resistance to an antibiotic (either by destroying the antibiotic or pumping it out of the cell) or they absorb a small circular piece of DNA called a plasmid which contains this gene. Either way, their original DNA is modified and is passed down to future generations who now have this beneficiary mutation.
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post #40 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

If I learn something new and in the end I'm resistant to something, does that mean I'm mutating? No!
If bacteria has the capability to gather and analyze surrounding information, use that information and adapt to its surrounding for adaptation purposes, it should not be called mutation. Reason to that is because it didn't mutate. It gathered and learned new information. We human do that all the time. I avoid idiots and stupid drivers on the road; therefore, I'm resistant to them. It doesn't mean I mutated. That's the point I'm trying to make across.
From the science and logic perspective, the good mutation does NOT make any sense. Many of the so called mutations are simply put adaptations.

Yes but "learning" doesn't change your genome and it also doesn't get passed on to your offspring... The genes in your gametes do. In order to change those you need a mutation. Unless there's some mutagen or an error in the process of making RNA based on your cells and then using that to copy the DNA to new strands of identical DNA then there wont be changes in your genome. Since the effect the mutagen has on the gene is random the effect the gene has on your offspring will also be random. Random means just that, random. If you want to classify changes as bad or good then random can be good, bad or irrelevant, or just different.
 
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