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What makes a motherboard good? - Page 2

post #11 of 45
Thread Starter 
Okay, so I was right, that VRM is basically the most important feature.

And that there are other components to a motherboard, but most of them are for extreme situations - LN2/benching, SLI/multi GPU.

But for a 24/7 overclocker, even if you are pushing max voltage and heat for a 24/7 overclock, you just want basically the cheapest board with the right holes and chipset, but you should really make sure to get a decent VRM and if it's a couple bucks more, definitely.

And I guess if you dont overclock just get the cheapest motherboard that has the right holes.

It is interesting to know the advanced features a motherboard can have though.
Quote:
No. It seems that you are severely out of touch with the world and yes, you are being the biggest alarmist ever.

You caution against buying MSI boards even though there has not been a single wide spread incident of their Intel boards exploding. The last incident was with Gigabyte's X79 boards.

Literally no one is going to go through dozens of spreadsheets to find out how the VRMs on two different boards compare. Not even overclocking enthusiasts ******* do this.

You keep bringing up VRMs being the most important factor for buying motherboards even though this is far from ******* true. Maybe one in a million consumers will have VRMs on their list. Everyone else cares much more on **** that actually makes a difiference and are significantly easier to understand (ports, warranty / post-sale support, chipsets, BIOS, features, colour). Yes, I just said that colour is more important.

If a moderate overclock doesn't need higher quality VRMs than why the **** bring it up at all? No one is going to be doing a high-end overclock on a bottom of the barrel piece of **** board because the BIOS is crippled and it isn't smart either.

Sub optimal? I don't know if this is a joke or just complete ignorance. Sub optimal would have more to do with everything else that you deemed to be less important than VRMs.

So is this guy completely wrong when I brought up that VRMs is important?
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post #12 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

So basically ...

devil.gif

Precisely. That is my next board. As you can see from my sig, ud7's ftw. thumb.gif
post #13 of 45
if they are like $75 cheap and can get your chip to 5GHz. one of the perks being near a microcenter.biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 45
The UP7 can be mine too if Dexel can get me a $300 discount smile.gif
post #15 of 45
Quote:
You keep bringing up VRMs being the most important factor for buying motherboards even though this is far from ******* true. Maybe one in a million consumers will have VRMs on their list. Everyone else cares much more on **** that actually makes a difiference and are significantly easier to understand (ports, warranty / post-sale support, chipsets, BIOS, features, colour). Yes, I just said that colour is more important.
True. Only OCers care about VRM.
Quote:
If a moderate overclock doesn't need higher quality VRMs than why the **** bring it up at all? No one is going to be doing a high-end overclock on a bottom of the barrel piece of **** board because the BIOS is crippled and it isn't smart either.

Also somewhat true since bad VRM are going to struggle with high OCs, not something moderate like 30% increase (3.4Ghz to 4.4Ghz). And I also mentioned that many boards have crippled BIOS anyway that won't let you even attempt to OC higher unless you do some volt mod.

If we take over 40% clocks, some VRMs can't deliver or will do that very inefficiently, so overclocker will care, but an average user won't since he is unlikely to overclock anyway.

In other words, if you are an overclocker, and you want to push your CPU to limits even on air/water, VRM is obviously the most important choice. Especially on low budget, since you have to make compromise either for VRM, or features.

If we take top two of manufactures: Asus and Gigabyte, Gigabyte is the perfect example that, as far as I can remember, always cuts features first, then VRM. Asus does it backwards; thus, we see more Gigabyte boards among budget OC builds than Asus. So between Asus A boards and Gigabyte G board, assuming that above mentioned is correct, an informed overclocer would choice G, but average user would go for features.

That guy is showing a perspective of
Quote:
Maybe one in a million consumers will have VRMs on their list.
And
Quote:
Not even overclocking enthusiasts ******* do this.

Some OC enthusiasts don't spend time checking VRM, because they don't use $100 boards to OC. If you are an overclocker, who wants to find a board that is as cheap as possible but can OC very well, the quality of VRM becomes priority #1 and stability of BIOS #2.

And consumers simply don't care. They never cared about many aspects of electronics, so why should they care about one of the most complicated ones?
Quote:
So is this guy completely wrong when I brought up that VRMs is important?

He is right about priorities of most people. If you mentioned that VRM is the most important thing in a thread where one asked a board for HTPC that he is not planning to OC, he would be right.
But if one wants a budget board to push his CPU to the limits, he would be wrong.
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post #16 of 45
A company that has a good track record building quality boards should be your 1st thing too look at. Then you have to look at Options, then whistles and bells, then all the extra accessories it comes with.

You can have 10 different P67 or Z77 boards, they have same chipset and made by same company. But the price will vary by $100-$200. Thats because not only do they have fewer or more chips or voltage regulators, but there is also many bolt on options, more or less heat sinks. Extra ports, BlueTooth, more or less accessories. But at the end of the day, they made by same company and use same Chipset.
For example;
Asus ROG boards have a ton of extra bolt on options, and they all cost extra. But you have to ask your self: "are you really need all those options?" Do you really need 20 VRM chips because you going to water cool your system and OC to 6Ghz?
Most cheap boards today are very good at OC'ing. So just because it has 6 VRM's instead of 20, it doesnt mean you wont be able OC the CPU to a level that is more then enough for daily usage with good cooling. Look at all the Asus P67 boards, they all OC a CPU well, even the cheapest board.

So chose a Brand, then chose the mobo based on bolt on extras that you need, you will use and its practicality.
Edited by KGB7 - 11/30/12 at 9:29pm
post #17 of 45
Thread Starter 
^ Okay... I somewhat understand...

So if you are a typical consumer, not overclocker... you should get the cheapest board possible with the right holes, right? But even in that instance, there are maybe 10 motherboards for $50 that you can buy, or whatever the cheapest price point is for the socket in question. Which board do you pick?

You should pick the one with the best VRM, no? I mean, you got 10 motherboards to choose from for your HTPC that uses a single GPU, or simple gaming system, or general usage, or whatever you aren't overclocking. So you should buy the cheapest board possible. Am I right so far? Okay, so, with the 10 boards you still have to choose from, which one do you get? You get the one with the best VRM, right?

Then, if you are an overclocker, and you are sticking to ambient cooling (water/air, no crazy benching on nitrogen or anything).... you should still just buy the cheapest motherboard with the right slots, with the best VRM, right? Regardless of whether you are on a budget or not, you should basically buy the cheapest motherboard, with the best VRM, because even still, there are gonna be 20 $60 motherboards to choose from, and if you have extra money, you spend it on a better VRM.

Obviously, if you need different holes - SLI, lots of ram slots, etc, your going to have to pay more, but you still will have a large selection of SLI capable motherboards to choose from. It doesnt narrow the list down to one motherboard, is my point. There is no 'best motherboard for SLI".

So, beyond extreme sub-ambient benching, why buy anything other than the cheapest motherboard with the right holes, with the best VRMs for it's price point, or spend a little more money for better VRMs. I mean I see you are saying that people buying $100+ motherboards dont need to worry as much because all $100+ motherboards have good VRMs, but...even at $150 price point, shouldnt you still pick the motherboard with THE best VRM?

tldr: buy the cheapest motherboard possible with the right holes. If you overclock on a budget, buy the cheapest motherboard possible with the right holes with the best VRM per value. And why, even if you had a large budget, would you buy anything other than the cheapeste motherboard possible with the right holes with the best VRM per value?

Only with LN2/extreme cooling do I see it necessary to seriously invest in stuff like you mentioned - voltage readings, dual bios, etc.
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post #18 of 45
I'm vain and like pretty colours and big heatsinks that look nice yessir.gif
Usually only the nicer boards fit my taste, so I'm usually pretty well off.
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post #19 of 45
for sli/crossfire, overclockers/benchers/enthusiasts want a motherboard brand that supports the most X16s. Dual and triple normally and for sure these motherboards are expensive and will sport a good amount of quality vrms for sure.
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post #20 of 45
Quote:
So if you are a typical consumer, not overclocker... you should get the cheapest board possible with the right holes, right? But even in that instance, there are maybe 10 motherboards for $50 that you can buy, or whatever the cheapest price point is for the socket in question. Which board do you pick?

You should pick the one with the best VRM, no? I mean, you got 10 motherboards to choose from for your HTPC that uses a single GPU, or simple gaming system, or general usage, or whatever you aren't overclocking. So you should buy the cheapest board possible. Am I right so far? Okay, so, with the 10 boards you still have to choose from, which one do you get? You get the one with the best VRM, right?

Typical customer would choice something that looks nice, and offers most features. Also something that is reliable.
Quote:
Then, if you are an overclocker, and you are sticking to ambient cooling (water/air, no crazy benching on nitrogen or anything).... you should still just buy the cheapest motherboard with the right slots, with the best VRM, right? Regardless of whether you are on a budget or not, you should basically buy the cheapest motherboard, with the best VRM, because even still, there are gonna be 20 $60 motherboards to choose from, and if you have extra money, you spend it on a better VRM.

Obviously, if you need different holes - SLI, lots of ram slots, etc, your going to have to pay more, but you still will have a large selection of SLI capable motherboards to choose from. It doesnt narrow the list down to one motherboard, is my point. There is no 'best motherboard for SLI".

Yes
Quote:
So, beyond extreme sub-ambient benching, why buy anything other than the cheapest motherboard with the right holes, with the best VRMs for it's price point, or spend a little more money for better VRMs. I mean I see you are saying that people buying $100+ motherboards dont need to worry as much because all $100+ motherboards have good VRMs, but...even at $150 price point, shouldnt you still pick the motherboard with THE best VRM?

Well, that's what I do, but some people prefer more features. Although at that price range there aren't many extra features besides better audio codec and extra SATA ports.

In short, the choice depends on individual needs of a person. It's not the same for everyone.
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