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[VR-Zone] Microsoft's Security Essentials loses certification after badly failing AV-TEST - Page 5

post #41 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

If you have any idea what your are doing, AV is of limited utility. If you don't know what your are doing AV probably can't help you much anyway.
I've never run a persistent AV on my personal systems, and have some systems that go years between scans, with nary a threat found when they are scanned.
I've been using nothing on all of my computers for decades without an issue.
MSE = more or less nothing with a few more clicks and a larger footprint.
Even though it's often useless? What's the point?

because in the last 2 years, i have never had a virus and i am just not worried about it.
If i want stupid browsing, i will browse on my tablet. I have the ability to choose what i search for and where i search for it and what is search on. my pc is for gaming and my tablet is for useless junk out on the web.
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post #42 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayal View Post

Haven't tried those lately (in years), but I can't take these results seriously.
Its just that 102 seems like a very low sample to me, especially compared to the rest of the tests. Apparently those remaining 272.799 were detected 100% of the time. I don't see myself removing MSE because of this, at least until I see some more reliable testing.
I use a combination of four separate programs, Comodo Firewall and MSE (24/7), Spybot S&D regularly and MBAM monthly (on a schedule). So far I have yet to run into any sort of complications. Also, proper common sense when using a computer will help you more than the best AV suite.
1 - Don't run unknown .exe files
2 - If the same program is available on a more reliable site, use that one instead
3 - If its too good to be true its a virus
4 - You are NOT the 1.000.000 viewer, the prize is a LIE (just use adblock+)
5 - NO, you can't lose that much weight / enlarge your d*** / get a free iPad

6 - If you really must run it then sandbox it
7 - If a program that isn't supposed (or you don't trust) to have access to your internet connection / user settings / etc asks for it, deny and uninstall
8 - Never select default installation, always select Advanced Installation so you don't get flooded with free toolbars / crapware
9 - Learn how to google efficiently (most of the time its how you come to shady sites, by googling the wrong terms) and by the results on the search page, at a glance, tell if that site is of interest or if it just has a list of random tags with your search terms on it
10 - Before you click a link, see where it leads to by checking the bottom of the page, be wary of random links or comments even on reputable sites
This should be common knowledge to everyone near a computer (except maybe the sandbox part, but hopefully we're getting there).


You forget meeting those hot young singles!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakewalk_S View Post

I want a free ipad!!!!!!
lol
But I've only had 1 virus on my 3 PC's in a span of about 7 years. Came through on a windows update so I didn't catch it, ruined my OS so had to do a reformat. Other than that I've never had a problem with MSE. Maybe false sense of security? who knows. But I'll be on windows 8 here soon so hopefully that will keep me away from any virus's. I only go to sites I really know well on the internet when browsing.
I know from experience that Crackafee is horrible! On my mom's laptop it will disconnect the internet like half the time, its so dumb.

I solved that problem by just stop updating windows. Windows updates seems to fix one problem and causes six more.
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post #43 of 237
Aren't these tests from a month ago? Bitdefender smashes everything iirc.
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post #44 of 237
Haven't had a virus in years smile.gif Let's hope they fix it soon, I'm using MSE. ( and MBAM to check, you never know tongue.gif )
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post #45 of 237
If you're complaining that 102 is a small sample size, then you obviously don't know what 0day exploits are. biggrin.gif
post #46 of 237
I Call Shenanigans!

Some of the premium security companies properly use some connections to have this poorly done test put out in the wild. Microsoft has drastically improved security since the launch of Windows 7. MSE is needed with all these garbage security companies pushing more and more crapware on users. No! They could not leave well enough alone and just provide the user with a nice lightweight program that worked without slowing a PC to a craw and driving the average user insane! They had to go and find ways to get the average user to pay more and they did by adding all kinds of useless crap.

No Security suit is going to protect a user 100%. Commonsense and know how is the ultimate protection against threats. Adding in a great program like MSE and a properly setup firewall (Preferably Hardware/Router Based) along with some custom browser settings and the average use will realize they have no need for the costly premium crap Norton, McAfee, and AVG...

In fact, the people who buy most of the premium versions are pretty much throwing there money away smile.gif

Been using MSE on all my PCs for over 2 years now and not a single problem, but I Probably do not need it anyways. Why? Because I use Commonsense when surfing the web and downloading files. I also know how to setup my PC security and setup a hardware firewall properly without add-ons... Probably do not need the Hardware Firewall either smile.gif

Premium security companies are losing more and more money every day. Most of them will not be around in the form they are today for much longer...

Microsoft Security Essential is lightweight, does not bother the user, and it's free. It's worth installing even if a person does not think they will need it.

Far as I'm concern, most of the premium security software makers (Especially AVG, McAfee, and Norton) can go take a hike thumb.gif

....
Edited by nsseriouspanda - 11/30/12 at 11:05am
post #47 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahayassen View Post

If you're complaining that 102 is a small sample size, then you obviously don't know what 0day exploits are. biggrin.gif

this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsseriouspanda View Post

Microsoft Security Essential is lightweight, does not bother the user, and it's free. It's worth installing even if a person does not think they will need it.
Far as I'm concern, most of the premium security software makers (Especially AVG, McAfee, and Norton) can go take a hike thumb.gif
....

Excuses as AVG Free is extremely lightweight, so is Panda Cloud and AVG Free / AVG Paid-for and Norton do perfectly fine in not only AV-Test.org's tests but also AV-Comparitives.org's tests. the Norton's outdated bias gets old quick.

I see MSE's fanboys have come out of the woodwork. How can do defend an inferior product?

and 'common sense' is FAR from foolproof. You do realise the best malware is drive-by and undetected to 'common sense' right? Y'know like, implanting malicious code in a hacked webpage but leaving the webpage source code alone except for the malicious code so the website still looks and functions as normal? Not to mention a lot of websites have little control over the ads they show via an ad company they are e.g. here at overclock.net, we had a malicious ad appearing on this website we nor the ad company knew about.

I guess all the people handling corporate security in ICT are out of a job right because of 'common sense'? Gimme a break.
Also the AV companies make much more revenue off corporate offerings, which are much more feature packed and robust.
Edited by chinesekiwi - 11/30/12 at 11:39am
post #48 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cayal View Post


Haven't tried those lately (in years), but I can't take these results seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV-TEST 
1. Protection against 0-day malware attacks, inclusive of web and e-mail threats (Real-World Testing)
Samples used: 102

2. Detection of a representative set of malware discovered in the last 2-3 months (AV-TEST reference set)
Samples used: 272,799

3. Detection of widespread and prevalent malware (according to AV-TEST data)
Samples used: 5,000

Its just that 102 seems like a very low sample to me, especially compared to the rest of the tests. Apparently those remaining 272.799 were detected 100% of the time. I don't see myself removing MSE because of this, at least until I see some more reliable testing.

I use a combination of four separate programs, Comodo Firewall and MSE (24/7), Spybot S&D regularly and MBAM monthly (on a schedule). So far I have yet to run into any sort of complications. Also, proper common sense when using a computer will help you more than the best AV suite.

1 - Don't run unknown .exe files
2 - If the same program is available on a more reliable site, use that one instead
3 - If its too good to be true its a virus
4 - You are NOT the 1.000.000 viewer, the prize is a LIE (just use adblock+)
5 - NO, you can't lose that much weight / enlarge your d*** / get a free iPad
6 - If you really must run it then sandbox it
7 - If a program that isn't supposed (or you don't trust) to have access to your internet connection / user settings / etc asks for it, deny and uninstall
8 - Never select default installation, always select Advanced Installation so you don't get flooded with free toolbars / crapware
9 - Learn how to google efficiently (most of the time its how you come to shady sites, by googling the wrong terms) and by the results on the search page, at a glance, tell if that site is of interest or if it just has a list of random tags with your search terms on it
10 - Before you click a link, see where it leads to by checking the bottom of the page, be wary of random links or comments even on reputable sites

This should be common knowledge to everyone near a computer (except maybe the sandbox part, but hopefully we're getting there).

As tahayassen (see below) said, you have to take into consideration what the 102 number is about. I suspect that if you read it again and think about it, you'll see that it is much harder to compile a big list of "0-day malware attacks, inclusive of web and e-mail threats (Real-World Testing)", because they are extremely recent, that is why the sample size is smaller. But at the same time, it is very important for Anti-virus programs to be able to have excellent algorithms to detect these threats even before they have a signature. Detecting threats when the program has the signature in its database almost any Anti-virus program can do, that is the easy part, as long as you keep the databases updated, the problem is when a) there is no signature yet, because the threat has just been released b) the Anti-virus company still hasn't published the update with the signature; in both these cases your Anti-virus has to rely on the best it can do with the heuristics it has. And these are obviously the most dangerous kinds of threats.

Also, to those who brag about not having an Anti-virus installed, and brag about not having viruses when there are countless threats that don't exactly display a dialogue box telling you that you have just let a virus into your system, who can guarantee you that the virus doesn't install itself, does what it has to do (collect your banking data, or keystrokes in general), sends it to a server and then deletes itself ? Oh yes, but you can brag that you never had a virus when you scan two months later. Sure.

As to your list, I fully agree, but you're missing one part: threats don't come only through the Internet; if you receive a flash drive with some threat on it, your Anti-virus better be good enough to catch it. A few years ago my mother received a flash drive from work (yeah, some workplaces have their computers filled with viruses, although hers seems to have since been better at keeping the computers clean) that contained a virus, AVG was only able to detect part of it, but couldn't get rid of it, Avast could detect all the files and managed to delete them all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BodenM View Post

I use MSE and Comodo Firewall, haven't had a virus for a good 3 years (previously using Symantec until January last year. Until someone comes up with a lightweight AV suite that only does what it needs to do (protect from viruses/malware) without other crap thrown in and without slowing my system to a crawl when it decides to scan (looking at YOU, Norton ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)), I'll continue using MSE.

I also use Kaspersky Internet Security 2013 on my Atom Dual Core N550 Netbook, and it runs perfectly. With Kaspersky you only need to make a full scan once, afterwards it only scans files that changed or new files. A few years ago they specifically advertised KIS as being great for Netbooks, and indeed, I installed it on a Netbook with a single core N270 and it worked great, the system booted up quickly and everything else worked just as fast, I didn't notice any slowdowns. And the trend continues with KIS 2013. If it works well on my Netbook, I don't even notice it's there on my desktop. Sometimes I do get a message from it telling me it blocked a malicious element from a web page. Believe it or not, it's from legit pages that sometimes have malicious ads in them, just like someone pointed out that a malicious ad once made its way through OCN's ads. And I also have Adblock Plus and Ghostery installed, but their protection is only as good as their databases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahayassen View Post

If you're complaining that 102 is a small sample size, then you obviously don't know what 0day exploits are. biggrin.gif

Exactly!
Edited by tpi2007 - 11/30/12 at 11:47am
 
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post #49 of 237
I don't doubt this test, but I went through a phase earlier this year and was curious if MSE wasn't picking stuff up that others would so I did my own testing and all the top recommendations didn't find anything just like MSE. Not to say that will be the same with every user but I stick to safe websites and no matter what AV I'm using I have rarely ever had anything. AVG and Avast were getting too resource hungry and annoying so I'll stick it out with MSE and the occasional Malwarebytes scan since MSE is very low profile in all aspects.
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post #50 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad0314 View Post

Agreed, 102 samples is not good test.

BTW, av-comparatives and dennistechnologylabs came to a similar conclusion. I lost faith in MSE a long time ago.

This isn't just one test or all of a sudden. MSE has been going downhill for a long time and people shouldn't turn a blind eye to it and defend MSE for no reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

this.
Excuses as AVG Free is extremely lightweight, so is Panda Cloud and AVG Free / AVG Paid-for and Norton do perfectly fine in not only AV-Test.org's tests but also AV-Comparitives.org's tests. the Norton's outdated bias gets old quick.

I actually just picked up Norton a week ago and am really liking it so far. It seems very lightweight unlike Kaspersky and it seems to work well. Best of all its available pretty cheap as a digital download from Amazon.
Edited by BababooeyHTJ - 11/30/12 at 11:57am
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