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[NBC] 3-D printed gun fires 6 shots — then falls apart - Page 12

post #111 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

And what?
Do you seriously believe another source for lower receivers is going to cause a spike in murders by expert marksmen?
The scenarios you are implying are flatly absurd.
Absolutely fear-mongering.
If everyone on the planet had Star Trek level replicators that only made untraceable lower receivers for large bore sniper rifles, there would probably be less than a handful of murders with these weapons that otherwise wouldn't have happened, in the next several decades.
Worrying about thing like this is paranoia the likes of which I have rarely encountered, and is no justification at all for any sort of monitoring, restriction, or control of anything.

Didn't say that, what I did say is that, this makes those receivers readily available to those that shouldn't have them.

Anyone can order an upper, you can be a felon and own a weapon. You can be a murderer and legally own a POF.308 upper...

You can be a murderer and also own a 3D-printer...Commercial grade is about 5k...

So, let's say that murderer chooses to mass produce lowers that are untraceable and with a higher quality grade of polymer/plastic reaches success...Clearly this scenario is okay with you because you feel it will never happen.

I on the other hand, applying to be an FFL, have already seen machine shop billeted lowers, AK47 lower/upper assemblies...In fact, it's funny because if you apply to the NYPD they give you a crash course and a rundown of what's out there...Ironically, that little scenario above, has already been attempted.

Again, I'm not saying be afraid, I'm just saying this is a really big deal because mainstreaming this is basically just finding the right plastic.

This isn't something that I went in my garage and made-up...Should see their weapon's cache...People will do whatever they can to get a dangerous firearm...Always have and always will...Why supply them with a home-grown means above/beyond what they're already capable of?
post #112 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

You do realize that with a .338 the longest kill on record is over 2.5km...And the current record holder on the .50 in Iraq was over 2,800 meters.
In fact, there are some unconfirmed kills from even longer distances.
While I do realize these are trained snipers...It's really not that hard to pay for 5/6 courses and attain a moderate ballistics understanding enough to hit 1.5+km.

You name extreme examples of marksmanship that likely had as much an element of luck as a great shot not to mention they used precision made high quality weapons not home printed plastic parts!

I can tell you now as somebody formerly qualified on the L96 anything much over 800m is HARD and not what a criminal is going to do with the high chance of failure

All this is irrelevent though as nobody with the skill to shoot that far would do anything other than laugh if you handed them a homemade plastic rifle
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post #113 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesir View Post

I like how worried some people are getting. Gun's are obviously more dangerous than people, but it seems that the reason someone would want this is not because they can get a cheap gun, because you can already get a murder ready gun for <$100 legally. The true goal if I had to guess is to convert your average $800 AR-15 into a full auto M16 and bypass having to get a class 3 FFL licence to legally get one that wasn't made before the 1986 automatic weapons ban in the US.
But if the possibility that some schmuck is going to build himself an automatic M16 is going to ban 3D printing, then I don't want to live on this planet anymore. You can easily file down the sear pin to get a free automatic, which gangbangers already do, and the world didn't end because crime rates are at their lowest rate since WWII.
I for one can't wait for a useful high resolution affordable 3D printer, making custom brackets and enclosures would be sick.
A: but it's still a felony without the right paperwork, and i'm not willing to risk a long federal prison stay to have a FA M16 illegally.

B: yep.

Honestly I think it's pretty cool (the 3d printer stuff), but I'm gonna hold my breath for the ST:TNG replicator. That's what the cool kids have.
 
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post #114 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

You do realize that anyone can be trained these days...
Much like private flying lessons for the "9/11" terrorists...All you have to do is pay for a precision rifle course.
The .50bmg is actually the most traced weapon in the US, arguably and above/beyond that, no you actually can't. That weapon often requires the permission and fingerprinting from your local cops, as does a .408...But, you guys are the experts so, I bow down to your knowledge.
35 years of guns and you can't comprehend how to make a successful action out of plastic for use on a 50cal? Really? rolleyes.gif
...Alas, the reasons I wouldn't discuss this here are multiplying.
~ Not fearmongering, I just agree w/the Cops/Military that this is actually a big deal, especially in light of Obama's proposed assault weapon ban...

Has nothing to do with comprehension and more to do with reality.

How does this sound: "I know how to solve the worlds gas crisis, but I can't say anything on this forum"? Sounds like I have a load of BS in my sagging pants...
I'm not saying you don't know your weapons, but step back and read how that sounds.

I had a similar discussion almost a year ago about this exact subject with a dozen or so people including cops, active and retired FBI agents and one secret service agent sitting around a camp fire (Abalone diving). Not one in the group was "worried" about this technology and pointed out the same thing I pointed out concerning how easy it is to make a weapon (even a long range rifle) with the current metal working technology available to _anyone_ with no restrictions. Until that 3d printer can churn out dependable weapons that actually work, it is not even comparable to a fair machine shop in it's abilities. All agreed that the most significant threat to law enforcement were the multitude of guns available to anyone with cash, including those weapons put on the street by our own government.
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post #115 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by WR6133 View Post

You name extreme examples of marksmanship that likely had as much an element of luck as a great shot not to mention they used precision made high quality weapons not home printed plastic parts!
I can tell you now as somebody formerly qualified on the L96 anything much over 800m is HARD and not what a criminal is going to do with the high chance of failure
All this is irrelevent though as nobody with the skill to shoot that far would do anything other than laugh if you handed them a homemade plastic rifle

I can hit over a grand...The guys I shoot with can hit over a grand...Unfortunately, the only good range to shoot a grand around my area is upper NH//Maine. Windage a monkey could do...In fact, there are 3 free apps on your phone that'll do the entire calculation for you...3 are paid, do a decent job but, it's that free one that's spot on...Even gives elevation, temp, humidity, over-rotation, bore effect on a 1/10 at yardage...Good stuff.

Also, screw the .50...God gave us the .408 for a reason...Even at that, pop the lapua.

If someone replaced my lower with plastic, there would be no difference in accuracy.

If someone replaced the action, there would be no difference in accuracy.

The only parts that are serial-ed are the action and the lower...Just buy the rest of the gun.

My point is that this method makes mass production possible, it's just a question of finding the right plastic combination.

Also, the reason the gun broke apart was because gas pressure pushing the bolt back cracked the base...It wasn't because of pressure from the round or any other scenario...The plastic they used couldn't handle the abuse...Find the right plastic/polymer combo and BAM, that's it right there, jack.
post #116 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Didn't say that, what I did say is that, this makes those receivers readily available to those that shouldn't have them.
Anyone can order an upper, you can be a felon and own a weapon. You can be a murderer and legally own a POF.308 upper...
You can be a murderer and also own a 3D-printer...Commercial grade is about 5k...
So, let's say that murderer chooses to mass produce lowers that are untraceable and with a higher quality grade of polymer/plastic reaches success...Clearly this scenario is okay with you because you feel it will never happen.
I on the other hand, applying to be an FFL, have already seen machine shop billeted lowers, AK47 lower/upper assemblies...In fact, it's funny because if you apply to the NYPD they give you a crash course and a rundown of what's out there...Ironically, that little scenario above, has already been attempted.
Again, I'm not saying be afraid, I'm just saying this is a really big deal because mainstreaming this is basically just finding the right plastic.
This isn't something that I went in my garage and made-up...Should see their weapon's cache...People will do whatever they can to get a dangerous firearm...Always have and always will...Why supply them with a home-grown means above/beyond what they're already capable of?

What I'm not getting is where you think that a 3d printer is different then a CNC that can do it properly. If you had $5k you could get a CNC that could make the parts... the shop we share a warehouse with sold an old one for scrap that probably would have been able to do it.

The reason hobbiests get 3d printers is because they are quiet and not as messy... and also tend to take up less space. This will not change anything about weapons, unless you make the whole thing out of plastic and smuggle it through metal detectors.
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post #117 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

What I'm not getting is where you think that a 3d printer is different then a CNC that can do it properly. If you had $5k you could get a CNC that could make the parts... the shop we share a warehouse with sold an old one for scrap that probably would have been able to do it.
The reason hobbiests get 3d printers is because they are quiet and not as messy... and also tend to take up less space. This will not change anything about weapons, unless you make the whole thing out of plastic and smuggle it through metal detectors.

Someone's starting to get it...A little bit.
post #118 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Someone's starting to get it...A little bit.

Or, they could use the existing smuggling routes that already get tons of weapons where ever they want to go rolleyes.gif

As far as a metal detector goes, with the millimeter wave scanners, they'd actually see it... so, again, no biggie. And if it were loaded, that would set off metal detectors. Or are we using rubber bullets too? wink.gif
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post #119 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Didn't say that, what I did say is that, this makes those receivers readily available to those that shouldn't have them.

They are already readily available.

Because:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

People will do whatever they can to get a dangerous firearm...Always have and always will...

Exactly my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Anyone can order an upper, you can be a felon and own a weapon. You can be a murderer and legally own a POF.308 upper...
You can be a murderer and also own a 3D-printer...Commercial grade is about 5k...

Never doubted any of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

So, let's say that murderer chooses to mass produce lowers that are untraceable and with a higher quality grade of polymer/plastic reaches success...Clearly this scenario is okay with you because you feel it will never happen.

I never said it was "okay" with me, nor do I think it will never happen. In fact, I believe it's inevitable.

However, I do not think this will change anything, because other means of acquiring these parts exist without 3D printers. Those who really want them, will have them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Why supply them with a home-grown means above/beyond what they're already capable of?

Why place restrictions on something that won't impede anyone but those with perfectly legal intentions and legitimate uses?

To do this would simply be pissing on the rights and freedoms of the overwhelming majority, while barely discomfiting the tiny, tiny, minority with true malicious intent. It's not trading liberty for security. It's trading liberty away for nothing at all.
Edited by Blameless - 12/4/12 at 12:35pm
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post #120 of 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

I can hit over a grand...The guys I shoot with can hit over a grand...Unfortunately, the only good range to shoot a grand around my area is upper NH//Maine. Windage a monkey could do...In fact, there are 3 free apps on your phone that'll do the entire calculation for you...3 are paid, do a decent job but, it's that free one that's spot on...Even gives elevation, temp, humidity, over-rotation, bore effect on a 1/10 at yardage...Good stuff.
Also, screw the .50...God gave us the .408 for a reason...Even at that, pop the lapua.
If someone replaced my lower with plastic, there would be no difference in accuracy.
If someone replaced the action, there would be no difference in accuracy.
The only parts that are serial-ed are the action and the lower...Just buy the rest of the gun.
My point is that this method makes mass production possible, it's just a question of finding the right plastic combination.
Also, the reason the gun broke apart was because gas pressure pushing the bolt back cracked the base...It wasn't because of pressure from the round or any other scenario...The plastic they used couldn't handle the abuse...Find the right plastic/polymer combo and BAM, that's it right there, jack.

gnnnggh....

like listening to a Nasa director trying to ban skateboard ramps for fear of the miniscule impossibility that they'd send kids flying high enough to endanger ISS
 
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