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[Tech Report] AMD: We're not abandoning socketed CPUs - Page 9

post #81 of 103
I am sticking with Intel even if they go BGA.

Why?

Because when I upgrade the CPU I upgrade the mobo as well, otherwise I would be losing out on features(like PCIE3.0 for Ivy) the new CPU provide due to the outdated mobo.
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post #82 of 103
I am pretty sure Intel's plans for the future means all of the current chips that would fall into the LGA1155 category would be soldered, and they would keep Ivy Bridge-E, Haswell-E, etc.

Intel has been doing some horrible psychological tricks with all of this. By switching sockets constantly, they get people accustomed to having to buy new motherboards every upgrade anyways, so they're more accepting to the idea of a BGA package.

The whole thing is just rotten. As I've said in other places, it's going to drive the cost of everything up. Now, instead of buying CPUs directly from Intel, you would now buy them from the motherboard manufacturer. Meaning, there's another person who wants profits between you. They're also going to have to solder the board to the CPU. I don't see them doing that for free.

This is really good news that AMD is going to keep with sockets. They should eventually own the lower end enthusiast market (every CPU under $200) except for the few people who still want Intel. But, the total cost of ownership is going to skyrocket to have an Intel platform in that price range. Instead of a $200 CPU upgrade, they're going to have to go all out on a CPU + motherboard combination and I would expect them to mostly fall into the $300 to $700 price range for a typical $200 CPU build (I really expect BGA desktop to skyrocket prices with motherboard manufacturers gouging for BGA package since they're scared of becoming irrelevant with Intel moving to SoC). Hell, it's already a lot more expensive to upgrade Intel than AMD. I expect at least one new CPU upgrade in this rig before I upgrade the motherboard, and when the time comes, I'll have $300 to spend on a new CPU instead of $300 to spend on CPU + motherboard.

Anyone that is forward thinking would stay with AMD as the next upgrade to their rig would be a $200 CPU and a graphics card instead of having to go all in in CPU + Mobo. It also makes investing in a high end motherboard on AMD a much more worthwhile investment as you get to keep your motherboard for longer and hopefully it will see at least one CPU upgrade.

This should come as no surprise. There were rumors everywhere about AMD abandoning the enthusiast market, but Intel already has. They lock their processors, disabled base clock overclocking on some of their unlocked processors, focusing on power consumption over x86 performance, and just locking everything down.

AMD obviously sees the opening Intel is leaving here and they're going to strike, probably in 2014 with a highly refined steam roller that has Jim Keller's hands all over it.

But the reviews comparing Intel BGA to AMD socketed CPUs should be interesting to read. Intel motherboard choice will be stiffled massively as motherboard manufacturers aren't going to want to have 10 different models with 5 different CPU combinations on each. They're going to want to lower those numbers as much as possible. AMD will still end up with a ton of motherboard choices, and they're going to be much more versatile with working around people's budgets than Intel's BGA.

Intel is going to abandon the budget enthusiast while it chases tablets and mobiles with a huge range of chips, and AMD is going to stick with enthusiasts and chase mobiles and tablets with Jaguar platform and ARM (which has already been designed by ARM). I don't know why more people aren't worried about Intel's future, they're making some really, really dumb choices. AMD is strongest when Intel loses sight of what it does best (efficient high performance x86 CPUs) and Intel is off chasing some pipe-dream where it crams an x86 CPU into a market segment that it wasn't designed for and is competing with something that is designed for that market and is highly successful.
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post #83 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Because when I upgrade the CPU I upgrade the mobo as well, otherwise I would be losing out on features(like PCIE3.0 for Ivy) the new CPU provide due to the outdated mobo.

Except that more and more features are gonna be directly on-die.
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post #84 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

I am sticking with Intel even if they go BGA.
Why?
Because when I upgrade the CPU I upgrade the mobo as well, otherwise I would be losing out on features(like PCIE3.0 for Ivy) the new CPU provide due to the outdated mobo.


AMD will add PCI-E 3.0 in the future - they where the first to produce PCI-E 3.0 compliant video cards...
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post #85 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

I am sticking with Intel even if they go BGA.
Why?
Because when I upgrade the CPU I upgrade the mobo as well, otherwise I would be losing out on features(like PCIE3.0 for Ivy) the new CPU provide due to the outdated mobo.

My board is PCI 3 (Z77 Sabertooth) with a Sandy processor. I figure once Haswell is out I'll get a 3770K in the cheap.
 
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post #86 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I am pretty sure Intel's plans for the future means all of the current chips that would fall into the LGA1155 category would be soldered, and they would keep Ivy Bridge-E, Haswell-E, etc.
Intel has been doing some horrible psychological tricks with all of this. By switching sockets constantly, they get people accustomed to having to buy new motherboards every upgrade anyways, so they're more accepting to the idea of a BGA package.
The whole thing is just rotten.

Yes, I'd much rather they stopped advancing technology instead.
 
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post #87 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post

Yes, I'd much rather they stopped advancing technology instead.

Putting more of the north bridge on die does absolutely nothing for the enthusiasts. It's simply Intel trying to be like ARM.

But, let me ask you this. Your CPU came out in 2008. It is now 2012 and the latest Intel CPU is Ivy Bridge, Haswell if you want to be generous.

In 2004, Intel had a single core Pentium 4. In 2008, they released Bloomfield.

I really wouldn't say we've progressed that much with x86 performance from 2008 to 2012 as we have from 2004 to 2008. In my view, the enthusiast market has been basically dead and stagnant since 2008. Even if you upgraded your Wheatly, what would you get out of it? 30% better performance between overclock and IPC? And what would you have gotten going from P4 to Nehalem? 3 more cores and a chip that is faster at 3ghz than the Pentium 4 at 4ghz per core. AMD hasn't done much either.

Intel and AMD have no reason to make faster x86 cpus, since nothing needs it. a 4 year old CPU is still not a bottleneck. And all these analysts sit back and wonder why the enthusiast market is not growing.
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post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

I am sticking with Intel even if they go BGA.
Why?
Because when I upgrade the CPU I upgrade the mobo as well, otherwise I would be losing out on features(like PCIE3.0 for Ivy) the new CPU provide due to the outdated mobo.

When we upgrade our Intel rigs, we almost always need a new mobo.

If I upgraded to IB, I would've needed a new mobo.

When I upgrade to Haswell, I'm going to need a new mobo.

I don't like the idea of having to buy both at once, but the reality is, we already do that for the most part. wink.gif
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post #89 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Intel and AMD have no reason to make faster x86 cpus, since nothing needs it. a 4 year old CPU is still not a bottleneck. And all these analysts sit back and wonder why the enthusiast market is not growing.
Dolphin and PCSX2 (GameCube/Wii and PS2 emulator) choke running on four year old CPUs when you play at the highest settings for certain games. I upgraded from an Athlon II X3 455 to an i5-2500K and both Dolphin and PCSX2 both saw massive speed boosts, especially after I overclocked it. There are programs that benefit from faster CPUs, just that the majority of people don't use them. Soldering CPUs to the motherboard could cripple overclocking (yes I know, it might not happen with high-end CPUs, but that's just a rumor) as the the heat could potentially melt the solder joint between the CPU and the motherboard. I just hope Intel uses a much better material than Microsoft did for soldering the GPU to the motherboard of the XBOX 360 (weak solder joints caused the Red Ring of Death).
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post #90 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

My board is PCI 3 (Z77 Sabertooth) with a Sandy processor. I figure once Haswell is out I'll get a 3770K in the cheap.

Your board have PCI3, it just don't run PCI3 speed with a Sandy, that's stated some where on your mobo box or user menu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

When we upgrade our Intel rigs, we almost always need a new mobo.
If I upgraded to IB, I would've needed a new mobo.
When I upgrade to Haswell, I'm going to need a new mobo.
I don't like the idea of having to buy both at once, but the reality is, we already do that for the most part. wink.gif

My thoughts exactly, hence why I don't mind Intel going BGA. When I upgrade I sell the old mobo and CPU instead of getting new CPU to put in an old mobo.
Edited by sherlock - 12/5/12 at 12:42pm
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i7-6700K  ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger EVGA 1080 FTW TridentZ DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung SM951 128GB Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB Muskin Reactor 1TB Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro  Acer XB321HK 32" 4K G-sync 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Rapid Fire EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 NZXT H440 Black Logitech G900  
Mouse PadOther
Razer Vespula CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Syst... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-7700HQ 2.8Ghz(3.8Ghz Turbo) Dell XPS 15-9560 Nvidia GTX 1050 8GB DDR4-2400 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
256GB PCIE SSD Windows 10 Pro 15.6" 1080p 
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