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All Vishera CPUs compared - Page 3

post #21 of 45
I dont know if I would agree to them just doing server chips. All of the companies that did only server chips went out of business. mad.gif

I would love to get my hands on some of the last PA-RISC systems made. They were absolute screamers for their time, heck I have a 120Mhz PA-RISC workstation that is about as fast as a 500Mhz P3 for general usage.
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post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Hm, not quite. But also not completely a full eight core.
Bulldozer uses eight full integer units, that's the most large similarity to a real eight core processor, but the difference is that it uses eight floating point units... 128bit wide (thus not AVX compliant). For this matter, they implemented the possibility for the module to 'fuse' these two FPUs into one larger 256bit unit, thus made the processor AVX compliant.
From a traditional standpoint, it is an eight core processor. But if the 256bit precision is requiered, then the processor becomes a quadcore with four extra integer units.

That's why I said it looks like... If I had meant otherwise I would've said that it was an 8-core outright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

From a traditional standpoint, it is an eight core processor. But if the 256bit precision is requiered, then the processor becomes a quadcore with four extra integer units.

Except for... Wait, what? From a traditional standpoint, a core would have all of these components completely to itself...
post #23 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0bius View Post

Except for... Wait, what? From a traditional standpoint, a core would have all of these components completely to itself...

If we don't consider that AVX exists (previous to the introduction of Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer), then you don't really need a FPU with a SIMD register width of 256bit. That's one of the features of AVX.

Previous to the introduction of said instruction set this processor would be a fully fledged 8-core. But since AVX is there and the FPU FMACs are only 128bit wide, when the full width is needed (again, by a process requiering AVX), both of the FPUs are 'combined' in a sense, resulting in only four usable full 256bit wide FPUs if the load is spread across all the modules.


IMy head hurts after having to read and try to understand all the information provided by AMD on the architecture axesmiley.png
   
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post #24 of 45


BS Hybrid chip Works both as quad core and eight core.

you can not take single thread speed into account and then complain about it not being MP ratio of 8

The reason for this is that the front end must split up with two threads working in a module.

Which I have effectively shown here that their is a 32% loss in thread speed when this happens.

when you run single threads in a module you only have four full 4 way decoders to use.

When you run all threads in a module you end up with 2 way decoders for each core.

this a 50% loss in decoder amount.

this why I ran Intelburntest along with cinebench 11.r in single thread with them both working on with a core in a module.

as you can see in the boxes you can tell but the Gflops when cinebench was done and see

Mind you this a Zambezi chip posted here so if you guy want to try and do this test I can give you details.
    
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post #25 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0bius View Post

Except for... Wait, what? From a traditional standpoint, a core would have all of these components completely to itself...

By this reasoning, the CPU was invented in 2010, because AVX didn't even exist before that.

Is my i7 970 a zero core processor because it's completely incapable of executing 256-bit AVX instructions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Previous to the introduction of said instruction set this processor would be a fully fledged 8-core.

The real point of contention isn't the FPU. It's the shared front-end.
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post #26 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

By this reasoning, the CPU was invented in 2010, because AVX didn't even exist before that.
Is my i7 970 a zero core processor because it's completely incapable of executing 256-bit AVX instructions?

I didn't mean it this way. Pardon my poor wording, as my grammar is what it is (check there in the left why). I actually meant a comparison to Deneb (p.ex) in that very specific sense. But I'm sure you got the point, no need to be that finicky wink.gif
Quote:
The real point of contention isn't the FPU. It's the shared front-end.

I read something about that when Bulldozer's less-than-amazing performance was analyzed, although I lacked the knowledge to understand the matter. I'll google a bit more, I'm interested now.

I wasn't examining that aspect as a lack of performance though. I doubt most of the software we use currently even acknowledges the possibility of using 256bit-wide FPU registers.
   
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post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

I read something about that when Bulldozer's less-than-amazing performance was analyzed, although I lacked the knowledge to understand the matter. I'll google a bit more, I'm interested now.

Front end is indeed one of the big limiting factors in Bulldozer's performance. Vishera remedied this to an extent, and the next iteration of the architecture should

Basically, as it stands, the shared front-end is something of a bottleneck. It's simply not wide enough to always feed both cores it's attached to in all situations. Vishera/Piledriver didn't widen the front-end, but it does include numerous efficiency improvements that help performance quite a bit. Steamroller should actually widen the front-end, in addition to further tweaks, and further improve per-core efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

I wasn't examining that aspect as a lack of performance though. I doubt most of the software we use currently even acknowledges the possibility of using 256bit-wide FPU registers.

This is true. I don't currently use anything that makes heavy use of AVX except for some benchmarks and stress tests. It is gradually becoming more popular though, and there are already niche applications that greatly benefit from it.

Anyway, I think lack of performance from early parts played more of a role in people saying BD cores weren't real cores, than actual shared features did. If BD performed like vishera or better from the get go, no one would have claimed it was anything less than two modules per-core.
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post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Basically, as it stands, the shared front-end is something of a bottleneck. It's simply not wide enough to always feed both cores it's attached to in all situations. Vishera/Piledriver didn't widen the front-end, but it does include numerous efficiency improvements that help performance quite a bit. Steamroller should actually widen the front-end, in addition to further tweaks, and further improve per-core efficiency.

According to Wikipedia (I was lazy to read through AMD's papers this time:p), the shared front end was designed because of 'the burst nature of CPU tasks'... Which if you ask me sounds like they were actually looking for trouble.
Sure it would work on tasks where cores aren't 100% active all the time, but when a workload actually puts a strain on the full module, to me it looks pretty obvious that the front-end will become overwhelmed, as it is (according to Wikipedia again, would need double checking here) not designed to feed two cores working at full blast, but to feed two cores that get random processes (alternating cores whenever possible) as fast as possible.

I can't help but think... What happens when a load gives a task for both the cores? The front-end can't do anything but slow down and feed one core at a time, am I right?
Quote:
Anyway, I think lack of performance from early parts played more of a role in people saying BD cores weren't real cores, than actual shared features did. If BD performed like vishera or better from the get go, no one would have claimed it was anything less than two modules per-core.

True. And the leakiness of Zambezi also played a role, those things sure ate tons of power biggrin.gif
   
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Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
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EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
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SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
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Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
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Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
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post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

By this reasoning, the CPU was invented in 2010, because AVX didn't even exist before that.
Is my i7 970 a zero core processor because it's completely incapable of executing 256-bit AVX instructions?

No? I don't see how AVX is relevant. I'm not trying to say you have to have anything in particular, (e.g. AVX) for it to be considered a CPU. I'm saying that traditionally, cores are mostly independent of each other, and don't share on-die resources like BD/PD modules do.
Edited by m0bius - 12/10/12 at 4:48am
post #30 of 45
so its a quad core with amd's own version of HT.....i say lets be glad amd still makes high end cpus for desktops and has the common sense not to try to directly solder chips to mainboards ala intel with broadwell. i am very impressed with the performance of the fx 8350 vs my old thuban hexcore. the thuban performed well still, but was showing its age to me in that it couldnt work with anything more then ddr3-1600 memory. at the end of the day we have a clear path forward and that is something to be very thankful for. thumb.gif
 
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Beautiful HoRyzen
(19 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700x Gigabyte Auros ax370 gaming 5 gigabyte geforce gtx 1080 ti gaming Crucial Ballistix Tactical ddr4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate Barracuda 4TB crucial mx300 m2 Asus dvd rw corsair h100i 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
corsair af120 corsair af 120 windows 10 pro 64 bit asus vw 246h 
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aoc 2236vw corsair k40 corsair rm750x corsair graphite 760t arctic white 
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corsair sabre rgb razer vespula altec lansing ocatne 7 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 Duo g72gx-rbbx05 gtx 260m Nanya PC2-6400 
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