Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [The Tech Report] Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 660 Ti revisited
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[The Tech Report] Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 660 Ti revisited - Page 33  

post #321 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicmew View Post

When their entire article is based on a phenomenon that only occurs without vsync, and is then played out like it is some general case, that is the quintessential example of bias.
Please tell me, why does the article not mention what happens when it is turned on? Given how important being off is to their testing methods, there should be several paragraphs of discussion on this point. Instead there is one sentence barely mentioning it. I say this in seriousness: if you can answer this question, you have a chance of convincing everyone here in this thread that the article is not biased. As is, their review is totally irrelevant to a large fraction of people looking to choose between the two cards.
And pray tell why testing with vsync on is "not wise" when they are testing sub 60 FPS?
The amount of uninformed people spouting off in this thread is astonishing.

With Vsync on, all the frame time are the same.* How much more discussion is needed?

If you intend to play all your games with Vsync on, then all you need is the slowest card that gets you 60 FPS with the settings you want, so the relative speed of the cards above that point is irrelevant. But no one tests for cards that can play a game at a set frame rate with varying settings (except, to some extent, HardOCP) so what you are really asking for is a completely different type of review.

* unless you are below refresh and running triple buffering, in which case you might as well go ahead and test with Vsync off.
post #322 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrgtit View Post

Simply not my experience...frametimes varies significantly more on all the 7 series cards I had.

It shouldn't, check out some of the earlier techreport reviews. Tahiti should be significantly better than Cayman and Cypress with frame latency or smoothness in general.
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3570k Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H MSI TF3 7950 Tri-fire Samsung 30nm 4x4GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel 320 160GB and a few samsung platters Windows7 x64 Catleap Q270 Rosewill mechanical 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX850 Xigmatek Elysium Razer Deathadder Puretrak talent 
Audio
Xonar Essence STX 
  hide details  
My System
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3570k Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H MSI TF3 7950 Tri-fire Samsung 30nm 4x4GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel 320 160GB and a few samsung platters Windows7 x64 Catleap Q270 Rosewill mechanical 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX850 Xigmatek Elysium Razer Deathadder Puretrak talent 
Audio
Xonar Essence STX 
  hide details  
post #323 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

It is odd you had those experiences. One of the strengths of the 7970 is that it's min. frames are usually good compared to the 680. In fact I t hink that's the reason it goes over the top in most benchmarks.

Could be just a random configuration thing in your PC. I've owned a 7970 and 670 and to be quite honest I can't tell the difference between them in game at all. I'm sure the 7970 has slightly better framerates but the overall experiences are identical. Only reason I've switched to Nvidia is SGSSAA. Literally the only reason.

I had the cards in multiple machines, numerous times on fresh win7 installs. I think it's either down to the drivers at the time, as AMD's have evolved significantly lately, or differing sensitivity to stutter/frametimes. Either way, I hope your enjoying your 670 and Im definitely not trying to knock the 7000 series...the 7970s I had were the most powerful cards I've owned. 680 had more finess at the time imo.

Too bad they weren't nearly as inexpensive when I got them as they are now. I paid $550 for the first reference 7970 I got, before the 680 launched. Same card can be found today for $379. AMD kinda pissed me off this round for that reason. I use to really look to them to provide bang for buck. Kinda sucked to find they only do it when pressed...not surprised I supposed. Again I'll say, competition is always good...fanboyism makes no sense. If the other company didnt exist you would likely be paying twice as much for your card, regardless which brand you prefer.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrgtit View Post

Simply not my experience...frametimes varies significantly more on all the 7 series cards I had.

It shouldn't, check out some of the earlier techreport reviews. Tahiti should be significantly better than Cayman and Cypress with frame latency or smoothness in general.

I did when they were first published and I agree. The Tahitis I owned were better than Cayman and Cypress, just not Kepler smile.gif...at least at the time of my testing. The variables involved make it very person, machine, resolution, driver, os, vendor, version, etc. dependent that no one persons or review site's experience will ever be definitive.
Edited by ulnevrgtit - 12/7/12 at 6:29pm
post #324 of 745

Lets look at Skyrim using a 7950 at 900MHz.  Res 2560, 8xAA, 16:10--win7

http://techreport.com/review/23150/amd-radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition/7

 

Now lets look at the most recent review using a 7950 at 850Mhz/950Mhz boost.  Res 2560 at 4xAA, 16:9--win8

http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited/9


Edited by EastCoast - 12/7/12 at 6:53pm
post #325 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Lets look at Skyrim using a 7950 at 900MHz.  Res 2560, 8xAA, 16:10--win7
http://techreport.com/review/23150/amd-radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition/7

Now lets look at the most recent review using a 7950 at 850Mhz/950Mhz boost.  Res 2560 at 4xAA, 16:9--win8
http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited/9

That's quite something.

I've actually heard before that the DPC latency on Windows 8 is incredibly high (albeit somewhat consistent). Perhaps people should simply try reducing DPC latency? There are a number of methods that may or may not work. I've never had a need for them but maybe it will help with AMD cards on Windows 8 or maybe even Windows 7
New and Shiny
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Rynze 7 1700 ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire HD7950 G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14D 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston HyperX 3K Crucial MX300 Western Digital Black Western Digital Green 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Western Digital Red Noctua NH-U14S Windows 10 Pro Dell U2414H 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell P2414H Ducky One Corsair RM650x NZXT H440 White 
MouseAudio
Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Xonar DX 
  hide details  
New and Shiny
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Rynze 7 1700 ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire HD7950 G.SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14D 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston HyperX 3K Crucial MX300 Western Digital Black Western Digital Green 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Western Digital Red Noctua NH-U14S Windows 10 Pro Dell U2414H 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell P2414H Ducky One Corsair RM650x NZXT H440 White 
MouseAudio
Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Xonar DX 
  hide details  
post #326 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Lets look at Skyrim using a 7950 at 900MHz.  Res 2560, 8xAA, 16:10--win7
http://techreport.com/review/23150/amd-radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition/7

Now lets look at the most recent review using a 7950 at 850Mhz/950Mhz boost.  Res 2560 at 4xAA, 16:9--win8
http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited/9
They use different areas. Read the review before posting.
post #327 of 745
Anyone who's been following Tech Report like me for years would know they aren't biased in the least. Considering the response to that article they will most definitely talk about it in their next podcast so I encourage all of you to listen to it when it's released (unfortunately it should be out on the 16th so in quite a few days).

The problem here is probably with AMD drivers, they're probably very unoptimized for Windows 8 which would not be surprising to me considering my experience with ATI/AMD drivers. I still have to use 10.4a beta drivers with my 4870x2 for it to work properly and not having Crossfire being disabled, I'm not expecting performance optimizations or anything of the sort at this late date, but the card simply won't work as it should with all the drivers released after this one, and I tested quite a lot of them.

I'm sure Nvidia drivers have some issues too but the truth is my 8800GT still runs perfectly fine to this day while my 4870x2 doesn't with any driver after 10.4a
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4790K Asus Z97 Pro Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X 16GB GSkil 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate 2TB 2000DM001 Seagate 3TB 3000DM001 Plextor PX891SA NH-C12P 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 64bit Iiyama XB2783HSU Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000 Corsair TX750W 
CaseMouseAudio
Lancool K62 Logitech G500 Xonar DX 
  hide details  
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4790K Asus Z97 Pro Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X 16GB GSkil 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Seagate 2TB 2000DM001 Seagate 3TB 3000DM001 Plextor PX891SA NH-C12P 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 64bit Iiyama XB2783HSU Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000 Corsair TX750W 
CaseMouseAudio
Lancool K62 Logitech G500 Xonar DX 
  hide details  
post #328 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post

Anyone who's been following Tech Report like me for years would know they aren't biased in the least. Considering the response to that article they will most definitely talk about it in their next podcast so I encourage all of you to listen to it when it's released (unfortunately it should be out on the 16th so in quite a few days).

The problem here is probably with AMD drivers, they're probably very unoptimized for Windows 8 which would not be surprising to me considering my experience with ATI/AMD drivers. I still have to use 10.4a beta drivers with my 4870x2 for it to work properly and not having Crossfire being disabled, I'm not expecting performance optimizations or anything of the sort at this late date, but the card simply won't work as it should with all the drivers released after this one, and I tested quite a lot of them.

I'm sure Nvidia drivers have some issues too but the truth is my 8800GT still runs perfectly fine to this day while my 4870x2 doesn't with any driver after 10.4a


Except you ignored the part where they are shaming AMD for their controlled NDA release. As if the guy took it personally? Like this isn't a business and it isn't AMD's perogative on how they will allow information to be disseminated while under NDA.
The 3930
(26 items)
 
Junior's 3930
(22 items)
 
DATA/HTPC
(20 items)
 
  hide details  
The 3930
(26 items)
 
Junior's 3930
(22 items)
 
DATA/HTPC
(20 items)
 
  hide details  
post #329 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

Except you ignored the part where they are shaming AMD for their controlled NDA release. As if the guy took it personally? Like this isn't a business and it isn't AMD's perogative on how they will allow information to be disseminated while under NDA.

Who cares if they shamed AMD for NDA stuff. Separate issue. One dispute does not equal 100% bias from then on.
Upgrayedd
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1700 @ 3.95GHz 1.387v Asus Prime B350 Plus  RX480 XFX RS 1350/2200 Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 2933Mhz cas 14 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung 950 Pro M.2 Windows 10 pro x64 Viotek curved FHD 144Hz EVGA 750w 80 Bronze 
  hide details  
Upgrayedd
(8 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1700 @ 3.95GHz 1.387v Asus Prime B350 Plus  RX480 XFX RS 1350/2200 Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 2933Mhz cas 14 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung 950 Pro M.2 Windows 10 pro x64 Viotek curved FHD 144Hz EVGA 750w 80 Bronze 
  hide details  
post #330 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

Except you ignored the part where they are shaming AMD for their controlled NDA release. As if the guy took it personally? Like this isn't a business and it isn't AMD's perogative on how they will allow information to be disseminated while under NDA.

Who cares if they shamed AMD for NDA stuff. Separate issue. One dispute does not equal 100% bias from then on.


Rofl. It's called motive. Reviewer has an issue with AMD. He said so himself lol.
The 3930
(26 items)
 
Junior's 3930
(22 items)
 
DATA/HTPC
(20 items)
 
  hide details  
The 3930
(26 items)
 
Junior's 3930
(22 items)
 
DATA/HTPC
(20 items)
 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [The Tech Report] Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 660 Ti revisited