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[The Tech Report] Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 660 Ti revisited - Page 5  

post #41 of 745
Story time biggrin.gif

That review made me lol, but as far as this bias going on, I can assure you that TR is a great website for cpu/gpu reviews. To me, they're probably the most detailed website out there for these types of reviews, but I will say that I'm somewhat dissapointed in the game selection. I would've liked to see BF3, Crysis 2, MP3, and Metro included in the review.

If some of you guys don't know about the 99th percentile and whatnot, just read this article that they made a while ago. If you don't feel like reading it (read it anyways...), then I'll just summarize the 99th percentile thing: its the time (in ms) that it took to deliver 99% of the frames. In other words, 99% of the frames were played at "x"ms, and from there the ms can be translated into fps. The conversion chart can be found on this article. The lower the ms, the more fluid the gameplay is since the delay between each frame is shorter. Higher delay/ms= more latency/microstutter. As for the 7950 vs. 660Ti, it basically means that in the majority of the games that he benchmarked with, the 660Ti was able to render 99% of the frames faster than the 7950, which generally means more fps and/or less latency/microstutter.

Honestly, I wouldn't even look at the 99th percentile because I highly doubt 1% of the frames that were generated slower would impact gaming performance. The most important one to look at is the time spent beyond 33.3ms, or below 30fps. You want that curve to be as far back (near 100%) and low as possible. If the line crosses 33.3ms at about the 95th percentile, then that means that 5% of the frames were under 30fps.

I'm actually surprised that the 660Ti is doing so well, and they didn't even review the card with their newest beta 310.70 drivers, which offers a pretty good performance increase in some games (graphs here). AMD hasn't been the only one stepping up on their drivers, and it seems that NV is doing a slightly better job at game optimization. AC3 performance on AMD cards is horrible right now. Just wait for the next series of beta drivers to roll out, and that should improve performance in AC3.

As far as the resolution goes, the 660Ti's resolution threshold is right around 2560x1440, although it's tier relative to the higher end graphics cards and its price indicate that it's supposed to be run at 1920x1xx0. The 192-bit bus is the obvious culprit as the 670/80's resolution threshold is around 5760x1080 due to its 256-bit bus. Any higher than that, the numbers really start to lower, and the 79x0's 384-bit bus starts to really work its magic.

This review has really got me thinking about which card is the best now, but I still say that the choice is very situational. If you're going to be overclocking, I think the 7950 is still the best choice. If you just want a "turn key"graphics card, then I feel the 660Ti is the best choice. If you like to mod games with extra graphical stuff (I miss the good ol' Crysis days), then the 7950 would be the better card to get because you have much more vram/bus width headroom to compensate for those types of mods. If you want Physx, then getting an NV card is pretty much required, but you could always get some cheap NV card as dedicated Physx for AMD systems. I believe that the 7950 is a card that will be more fun to play around with because there's more freedom to what you can do with it. This voltage locking stuff kind of turns me off on NV cards, but you can still get a pretty good oc out of these cards even on stock voltage, so it really isn't as a big a deal as some of the people on here make it out to be. No voltage =/= no oc, just a lower maximum oc.

The latencies may be fixed with a program called RadeonPro, which has something called Dynamic V-Sync. It's a similar (better?) version of NV's async. More info can be found.here.
Edited by airisom2 - 12/5/12 at 11:02am
post #42 of 745
Isn't this the site where its administrator raised a big, public stink with AMD review guidelines?

I tend to avoid sites like these like a plague where there is even any hint of conflict that might influence the outcome. There is also another site that makes no attempt to hide how nVidia is complete PITA when it comes to dealing with them. Is that TweakTown? I avoid that site too. There is a plethora of review sites on the web that one can get a good holistic overview on quality of products even without these outlier opinions.
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post #43 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post

Isn't this the site where its administrator raised a big, public stink with AMD review guidelines?

I tend to avoid sites like these like a plague where there is even any hint of conflict that might influence the outcome. There is also another site that makes no attempt to hide how nVidia is complete PITA when it comes to dealing with them. Is that TweakTown? I avoid that site too. There is a plethora of review sites on the web that one can get a good holistic overview on quality of products even without these outlier opinions.

Yeap this is that site. They went on a tirade over it lol. It's AMD's NDA, they say don't post that till X time, it's their right. AMD didn't tell them to fake the data, lol. TR, I wonder if they have some ulterior motive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2 View Post

This review has really got me thinking about which card is the best now, but I still say that the choice is very situational.

It's already starting to work, hehe. The 7950 is a superior card in every way. There just is no comparison. What we do know is that the 7950 competes with the 670, 680, and the 7970 outright. And here TR is saying it can barely handle a 660? Seriously? You think this is true airisom2?
Edited by tsm106 - 12/5/12 at 11:13am
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post #44 of 745
In their previous 660ti review, the 7950 and the 660ti had roughly equal frame rates and latencies in Skyrim. Now with the new drivers, WIndows 8, and a new scene from Skyrim the mean and variability of the latency of the 7950 has increased dramatically.
I'd really like to see a few AMD drivers tested as it seems odd to me that AMD would regress so much on frame rate consistency.
 
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post #45 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post

Isn't this the site where its administrator raised a big, public stink with AMD review guidelines?

I tend to avoid sites like these like a plague where there is even any hint of conflict that might influence the outcome. There is also another site that makes no attempt to hide how nVidia is complete PITA when it comes to dealing with them. Is that TweakTown? I avoid that site too. There is a plethora of review sites on the web that one can get a good holistic overview on quality of products even without these outlier opinions.

Yeap this is that site. They went on a tirade over it lol. It's AMD's NDA, they say don't post that till X time, it's their right. AMD didn't tell them to fake the data, lol. TR, I wonder if they have some ulterior motive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2 View Post

This review has really got me thinking about which card is the best now, but I still say that the choice is very situational.

It's already starting to work, hehe. The 7950 is a superior card in every way. There just is no comparison. What we do know is that the 7950 competes with the 670, 680, and the 7970 outright. And here TR is saying it can barely handle a 660? Seriously? You think this is true airisom2?

I like the 7950 a lot, but I will disagree with you on that it's superior in every way. You can't just judge a graphics card just by the hardware specs and fps. When you buy AMD/NV, you get everything else that comes along with it, and each side has offers that make them equally competitive. Are those features worth it? That's for the person buying the card to decide, and that's why I say that purchasing either a 660Ti or a 7950 is situational. Some people don't just buy products based extremely on performance and overclockability. You also have to factor in other variables that really distinguish the companies.

Check the drivers on the other websites'reviews. Maybe NV's beta drivers gave some good performance improvements over the WHQL drivers. If you look at this review of the 7950 ICE Q X2, you'll see that they were using AMD's 12.11 beta drivers (which beta, I don't know, probably beta 8), and NV's 306.23 WHQL drivers. In the benchmarks, it shows the reviewed 7950 in 670 territory, and even there, it was only a couple frames higher than the 660Ti (around 5), but I guess the NV beta drivers that Tech Report used in this review have given their cards some good performance increases. I'm thinking that AMD's 12.12 drivers, whenever they're released, will put the cards back to their respective tiers. Isn't competition great? thumb.gif
post #46 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2 View Post

Check the drivers on the other websites'reviews. Maybe NV's beta drivers gave some good performance improvements over the WHQL drivers. If you look at this review of the 7950 ICE Q X2, you'll see that they were using AMD's 12.11 beta drivers (which beta, I don't know, probably beta 8), and NV's 306.23 WHQL drivers. In the benchmarks, it shows the reviewed 7950 in 670 territory, and even there, it was only a couple frames higher than the 660Ti (around 5), but I guess the NV beta drivers that Tech Report used in this review have given their cards some good performance increases. I'm thinking that AMD's 12.12 drivers, whenever they're released, will put the cards back to their respective tiers. Isn't competition great? thumb.gif

techspot had a article which compared the latest cards with latest beta drivers 310.61 vs 12.11 beta 8. the HD 7950 boost almost matched GTX 670 at 1920 x 1200 (2% slower) . at higher resolutions like 1600p the HD 7950 boost was even better. Games like MOH Warfighter were 30% faster on HD 7950 boost compared to GTX 660 Ti.

http://www.techspot.com/review/603-best-graphics-cards/page8.html (310.61 beta vs 12.11 beta 8)

Hardocp showed the HD 7950 boost easily faster than GTX 660. (310.33 beta vs 12.11 beta 6)
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/11/12/fall_2012_gpu_driver_comparison_roundup/2

MOH Warfighter was shown to be faster on HD 7950 boost compared to GTX 670 at 1600p Ultra 4x MSAA according to hardocp review . (310.33 beta vs 12.11 beta 4)
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/11/07/medal_honor_warfighter_gameplay_performance_review/4

anyway i have asked the AMD rep. he said "They are looking at the techreport article" . lets see what happens.
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post #47 of 745
I'm not an owner of current generation Radeon graphics cards, but I consider myself an avid follower and would like someone to post an educated guess as to the step at which radeon lags in the pathway. My guesses being one of either the half speed fp16 float 64 bit texture filtering, or windows 8 driver compatibility, a pure clockspeed issue, or some latency timed driver issue that can be resolved by Radeonpro.
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post #48 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2 View Post

I like the 7950 a lot, but I will disagree with you on that it's superior in every way. You can't just judge a graphics card just by the hardware specs and fps. When you buy AMD/NV, you get everything else that comes along with it, and each side has offers that make them equally competitive. Are those features worth it? That's for the person buying the card to decide, and that's why I say that purchasing either a 660Ti or a 7950 is situational. Some people don't just buy products based extremely on performance and overclockability. You also have to factor in other variables that really distinguish the companies.

Check the drivers on the other websites'reviews. Maybe NV's beta drivers gave some good performance improvements over the WHQL drivers. If you look at this review of the 7950 ICE Q X2, you'll see that they were using AMD's 12.11 beta drivers (which beta, I don't know, probably beta 8), and NV's 306.23 WHQL drivers. In the benchmarks, it shows the reviewed 7950 in 670 territory, and even there, it was only a couple frames higher than the 660Ti (around 5), but I guess the NV beta drivers that Tech Report used in this review have given their cards some good performance increases. I'm thinking that AMD's 12.12 drivers, whenever they're released, will put the cards back to their respective tiers. Isn't competition great? thumb.gif


You're not even paying attention? Do you not see a problem with the consistency below? rolleyes.gif


TR junk review today - by Scott Wasson — 4:34 PM on December 4, 2012




TR old review - by Scott Wasson — 8:00 AM on August 16, 2012




What happened between August and December? Hmm...


by Scott Wasson — 11:01 PM on September 26, 2012

http://techreport.com/blog/23638/amd-attempts-to-shape-review-content-with-staged-release-of-info
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post #49 of 745
So frankly, what it looks like in my books is he's pretty pissed off at the way AMD released this product and what will more than likely be the way they release future products.

I'm sorry but after reading the thread again after my first post, it's pretty clear that no one agrees nor likes the new review of the HD7950 that TR has decided to fabricate. Which essentially is what has happened here i'm sorry to say, TR were a trusted review site and after today's escapade they have failed miserably on giving a well presented and fair review of two cards.
post #50 of 745
What happened between august and december? lots of driver updates as well as in game updates. Id say thats alot to change thing.

Whether his review is accurate or not I dont know. However, people saying the 7950 is superior in every way are just not reading right. Other reviews show it on par with the 7950 ad even beating it in some games, not sure how they get superior from that....

But let me guess now all reviews are bias right? rolleyes.gif
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