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[The Tech Report] Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 660 Ti revisited - Page 42  

post #411 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR Mclaren View Post

lol at the biased comments
deal with it people, 7950 and 660Ti are almost the same
Almost the same except one of them is colored red while the other one is green.
post #412 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

Almost the same except one of them is colored red while the other one is green.

Screw red and green.....I want my black/purple back!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dfx_Interactive



Memories.......memories......
    
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post #413 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Screw red and green.....I want my black/purple back!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3dfx_Interactive Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Memories.......memories......

Don't worry about them. they are with Nvidia now and they will be safe that way tongue.gif ...
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post #414 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessKnight View Post

Don't worry about them. they are with Nvidia now and they will be safe that way tongue.gif ...

Yes, I am aware they were "absorbed" by Team Satan....I mean, Team Nvidia.....

biggrin.gif

(Just joking fanboys, calm down!)
    
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post #415 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by dph314 View Post

Your link wasn't latency-related, and wasn't Windows 8. Framerate isn't the end-all, be-all. Smoothness is what people are going for when they want high framerates. I'm just saying that even with the card being overclocked and surpassing the 660's framerates, the 660 will still probably look way smoother, which is what the potential buyer of each of these cards is looking for. And at this moment in time, based on the latency results and similar framerates on Windows 8, the 660 looks like the better buy. And the reason doesn't seem to be a biased reviewer, just seems like immature AMD Windows 8 drivers. So, that's all I'm trying to say.
And the stock clocks, factory overclock or not, is what you get out of the box, which is what the review was comparing because of the similar price-points. So...not sure how comparing similar price-ranges is unfair? This was a price/performance test more than anything then.

There's a problem with that line of thinking, and more importantly, there is a fatal flaw in Tech Report's testing methodolgy that most people haven't realized up to this point.

First, there is a threshold of latency that Tech Report tests for, and any frame time that falls below that gets counted against the card in question. The one thing that most of you don't know is that as the average framerate falls, the time it takes to produce each frame grows exponentially.

For example: 60 fps = 16.67ms per frame
50 fps = 20ms per frame
40 fps = 25ms
30 fps = 33.3
25 fps = 40ms <- the number is growing more and more each time.
20 fps = 50ms
etc.

Once you fall below a certain threshold of "acceptable performance" you start getting a lot more extra time for producing frames. That can sometimes lead to skewed numbers if you're not careful.


Second, and this one is very important. Everything was done using FRAPS on gameplay segments. The tests were not pre-recorded and not able to be reproduced with 100% accuracy. When you're talking about frame latency, that alone is enough to invalidate their testing methodology. If you're going to measure frame latencies, YOU HAVE TO REPRODUCE THE TESTS EXACTLY BETWEEN EACH CARD!!! As soon as you throw any sort of variance into the equation, that's when the results become dicey to the point that they can even be invalidated given the right set of circumstances (see below).

Third, they did not test different resolutions or different settings of each card. They tested one resolution and one crop of settings. Some games were at 2560x1440, while others were at 1080P, but there wasn't a single game where multiple resolutions were tested. When has ANY review site settled with one set of settings and published their results as law? That's a very narrow-sighted approach to benchmarking.

Fourth, and I've said this many times before, the 660 Ti is overclocked to an extreme level straight from the factory, while the 7950 boost is basically a stock card. This is not ok. The cards are so close at stock that when you overclock either card, it will pull ahead. It is unfair to compare a heavily overclocked card with a stock card. Period. End of discussion.



Hopefully that sheds some light on some things that TR screwed up on with this test. Everyone (I mean everyone) should take all the results in this test with a grain of salt. The smell of bias is overwhelming on this one.
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post #416 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Fourth, and I've said this many times before, the 660 Ti is overclocked to an extreme level straight from the factory, while the 7950 boost is basically a stock card. This is not ok. The cards are so close at stock that when you overclock either card, it will pull ahead. It is unfair to compare a heavily overclocked card with a stock card. Period. End of discussion.

You need to let go of this. They tested two retail cards in an out-of-the-box configuration, exactly how the majority of people are going to use them. The price on the cards they chose is the same (actually the 660 Ti was cheaper) so you can't complain about that either. The fact is, AMD doesn't sell overclocked retail cards, so why is it incumbent of Tech Report to try to fix that for them? Your logic is that they should buy a lower clocked 660 Ti just to be fair? Why? How low do they need to go? Should they also try to disable boost, since that is also "overclocking" the card? They spent $300 on each card, and they got the best card available for that price, just like any consumer out there would. If you want to argue that they should have overclocked the 7950, well that's a different review. This was an out-of-the-box, let's get the best Nvidia and AMD card I can find at Newegg today for about the same price review.

Look, everyone needs to get some perspective here. This is one review. It is not Moses coming off the mountain with a tablet that says "Thou shalt not buy AMD". They didn't say their review was law (to use your words). They presented their findings just like every other review site does. If you want to see how well reference clocked cards compare, guess what, it's a big internet and you can find a review that tests that way (like TechSpot, which also had the 660 Ti even with the 7950). If you want a max OC to max OC review, you can find one of those also. If you want a $ to $ review, guess what, they exist also. I don't see why everyone has a hard-on for this review - they chose two cards, did some tests, and presented their findings. It is one data point on the continuum of reviews. Not every review uses the same hardware, or the same games, or the same sections of the game, which is why reasonable people compare several reviews before making their decision. If I was buying a card to use on my Win 8 machine, this review would give me something to think about, and that's all it is supposed to do.

In short, relax. If you want to find a review that says what you believe to be true, whatever that is, I'm sure you can find one if you look hard enough. If you don't like the way they tested, then go buy a couple of cards, do some testing, register a domain name, and make your own review site.
Edited by Forceman - 12/8/12 at 3:07pm
post #417 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aparition View Post

Whoa... what is with the attack?
This is just my opinion on my purchasing decisions I have made. Don't get so defensive!

Welcome to the mindset of AMD fanboys. They take any and every criticism of this company as a personal attack.
post #418 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

You need to let go of this. They tested two retail cards in an out-of-the-box configuration, exactly how the majority of people are going to use them. The price on the cards they chose is the same (actually the 660 Ti was cheaper) so you can't complain about that either. The fact is, AMD doesn't sell overclocked retail cards, so why is it incumbent of Tech Report to try to fix that for them? Your logic is that they should buy a lower clocked 660 Ti just to be fair? Why? How low do they need to go? Should they also try to disable boost, since that is also "overclocking" the card? They spent $300 on each card, and they got the best card available for that price, just like any consumer out there would. If you want to argue that they should have overclocked the 7950, well that's a different review. This was an out-of-the-box, let's get the best Nvidia and AMD card I can find at Newegg today for about the same price review.
Look, everyone needs to get some perspective here. This is one review. It is not Moses coming off the mountain with a tablet that says "Thou shalt not buy AMD". They didn't say their review was law (to use your words). They presented their findings just like every other review site does. If you want to see how well reference clocked cards compare, guess what, it's a big internet and you can find a review that tests that way (like TechSpot, which also had the 660 Ti even with the 7950). If you want a max OC to max OC review, you can find one of those also. If you want a $ to $ review, guess what, they exist also. I don't see why everyone has a hard-on for this review - they chose two cards, did some tests, and presented their findings. It is one data point on the continuum of reviews. Not every review uses the same hardware, or the same games, or the same sections of the game, which is why reasonable people compare several reviews before making their decision. If I was buying a card to use on my Win 8 machine, this review would give me something to think about, and that's all it is supposed to do.
In short, relax. If you want to find a review that says what you believe to be true, whatever that is, I'm sure you can find one if you look hard enough. If you don't like the way they tested, then go buy a couple of cards, do some testing, register a domain name, and make your own review site.

No, that would be Google, and it wouldn't be 10 Commandments, but the Nexus 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinDessica View Post

Welcome to the mindset of AMD and Nvidia fanboys. They take any and every criticism of this company as a personal attack.

Fixed it for you.
    
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post #419 of 745
What card hangs with the 7970 or 680?
what cards hangs with the low power, cool, silent cards?
What card hangs with the big boys when resolution is cranked up?
What card has the overclock potential to stomp the 680 easily or 7970?
What card is more future proof for games?
What card is it that costs less but is a high performance card?
What card has more VRAM & bigger Bus Width?
What card is Game & Compute capable?
What card can play multi screens easily at higher res?

Why Its the HD7950 (The 660TI could never fill that role apart from niche roles)

TechReport achieved its goal, which was site hits since its rapidly going the way of the dinosaur like the rest of the biased sites. Nobody likes a biased site that is nVidia focused only mad.gif nVidia can afford to pay those sites whilst AMD cannot
Edited by badrapper - 12/8/12 at 3:24pm
post #420 of 745
[quote name="Forceman" url="/t/1334760/snip.[/quote]

Ok so why was the 680/670 not included... we know why bcoz it would have made them look bad also. That 660ti overclocked card comes very close to the 680 and 670.. why did nvidia ask for them cards to be left out?

Most would overclock or have that option when the times comes than not to
Edited by badrapper - 12/8/12 at 3:26pm
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