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[The Tech Report] Radeon HD 7950 vs. GeForce GTX 660 Ti revisited - Page 57  

post #561 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

I don't understand comments like this. You talk about AMD user this and AMD user that, all the while you are clearly biased towards nvidia in your opinion. Sort of a double standard, wouldn't you say?
The problem with the GTX 480/580 is that there weren't many cards that came with third party cooling solutions. Users had to find their own aftermarket cooling solutions. With AMD and their lineup of GCN cards, it's harder to find a card with reference cooling than it is to find one with a third party cooling solution. Not one HD 7970 Ghz Ed. on Newegg has a stock cooler on it. So no, AMD's 7000 series of cards are not louder than nvidia's current crop of Kepler cards. I'd say they're about even with certain solutions on AMD cards (such as Sapphire's Dual-X HSF) taking the win on lower noise output... and a good 7970 with a proper cooler on it is certainly NOT louder than a 590 or even 690.
And you seem to hark on the past without any sort of acknowledgement to the present. Yes, Kepler cards use less energy, but it's not a whole lot less, and in order to achieve such low power consumption, they had to sacrifice compute performance (as you have so graciously noted above). Also, when you get to solutions that are a little bit lower, such as the GTX 660 and HD 7850, power consumption becomes virtually identical. Performance remains relatively the same too. At the moment, Nvidia can't even come close to touching the power efficiency exhibited by the HD 7750 either (that's full system power, not just card usage, by the way), but no one ever seems to remember that little detail. rolleyes.gif
Here's a good summary of this generation. With Nvidia's Kepler, you can have some cake. With AMD's GCN and the Cat 12.11 drivers, you can eat it too. thumb.gif
+1 internetz for you.
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post #562 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Although I've owned nV cards more times than AMD cards, I am definitely no fan-boy. I actually rather loved my 5850 x-fire setup for the most part, although they made it a hassle to OC them properly ... ended up having to flash bios to that of a different card to avoid the hassles imposed by the AMD drivers.
Anyways, given that someone above posted 12K score on a 3dMark11 (albeit watercooled) and I was only able to coax about 11.3K out of mine, along with the various benchies I've seen on the webs, I'm prepared to happily concede the crown to AMD this go-round, at the level of the two top end (single) cards at least. I actually LOVE it when AMD does well relative to the giants Intel and nVidia. Healthy competition is great for all of us.
This being said, for my own purposes/priorities, I'm very happy w/my 670 and wouldn't even trade it for a 7970, even though they are 'faster'. In fact, I probably won't buy another AMD GPU until such time as they integrate individual game profiles into their driver package, and someone puts out a program equivalent to nVInspector for AMD cards.
These are two nV 'features' that I just don't want to be without, esp. not if I go multi-GPU. I really have found SLI to be superior to XFire in every way aside from maybe a few % scaling on average. I believe AMD achieves superior 'scaling' by not deploying safeguards against microstutter like nV does. I also hated being 'stuck' with no X-fire whenever AMD lagged on CAP's for a new release ... at least with nV when that happens you have nVInspector to ride to the rescue (assuming you're handy with that sort of thing).
I'd also prefer to not give up PhysX, and various other little niceties that the NVCP offers.
So, my choice at the moment with how things stand is almost certain to be nVidia, but I respect that others find that the AMD options better suit their own personal priorities, and I certainly LOVE that they're making a great product that people want to buy, because it's best for all of us that they're around and kicking some butt thumb.gif

That might be old SLI but now Nvidia does that ever single % too.
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post #563 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

That might be old SLI but now Nvidia does that ever single % too.

Um ... what? headscratch.gif
    
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post #564 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Um ... what? headscratch.gif
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post #565 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Um ... what? headscratch.gif

You have not testes SLI with Kepler. Its not the same as Fermi. It does not go any more for that low scaling and smother experience. Actually if anything HD 79XX are a improvement in smoothness compare to HD 6900. On top of that you say HD 58XX was your last CF setup which is ages ago.
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post #566 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Anyways, given that someone above posted 12K score on a 3dMark11 (albeit watercooled) and I was only able to coax about 11.3K out of mine, along with the various benchies I've seen on the webs, I'm prepared to happily concede the crown to AMD this go-round, at the level of the two top end (single) cards at least. I actually LOVE it when AMD does well relative to the giants Intel and nVidia. Healthy competition is great for all of us.

Brett, both cards are under water and in very good loops so the playing field is/was very level. I'm gonna go on a tangent here to say that I find almost all reviews are done in a manner that doesn't tell the whole story or is not really indicative of how our small set of users are likely to use the cards. The reviewers never overclock the cards to where an enthusiast like us would would push to. They never test the cards in an environment where heat and noise is not an issue, like under water. In my test, all the restrictions are removed and the cards are running close to their maxims in an ideal world or as close as one can get to it. For instance the 680 is kept below the temperature throttle point and the 7970 is not overclock bound by heat in my test. They are not factors here so we can see the cards in an ideal scenario. I can't remember what thread that the 12.11 vs 310.33 grew from, but it was because the review that spawned it left so many questions and holes unanswered.
Edited by tsm106 - 12/10/12 at 10:22am
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post #567 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

You have not testes SLI with Kepler. Its not the same as Fermi. It does not go any more for that low scaling and smother experience. Actually if anything HD 79XX are a improvement in smoothness compare to HD 6900. On top of that you say HD 58XX was your last CF setup which is ages ago.
my sli'd 680s were just as smooth as my 560 ti's...
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post #568 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcamaross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

You have not testes SLI with Kepler. Its not the same as Fermi. It does not go any more for that low scaling and smother experience. Actually if anything HD 79XX are a improvement in smoothness compare to HD 6900. On top of that you say HD 58XX was your last CF setup which is ages ago.
my sli'd 680s were just as smooth as my 560 ti's...


I really don't like to quantify this "smoothness" descriptor because it's all subjective. I would however point out that you shouldn't have much noticeable stutter and if you do suffer stutter like TR demonstrated with the 7950, YOU HAVE CONFIG ISSUES that need fixing. TR admitted that they didn't know what the five caused it. That should make it clear that one would have to ignore or put less faith in their findings on the subject.
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post #569 of 745
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Originally Posted by Flameboy294 View Post

Goes to sleep for 10 hours, comes back to a flamefest tongue.gif good job guys.
Though through some speculation. This year it seems AMD has beaten Nvidea for once. But how did they do it? This is my theory
Nvidea as far as i know has always released their hardware after AMD releases theirs. This nearly always has made Nvidea come out on top. A smart move but someone has to do it.
What happened this year though? 7xxx series comes out, seems to be a good product. Nvidea comes along with the 6xx series, better then the 7xxx..as they have more time to adapt to the pricing of 7xxx and clock speeds. But AMD after some time lets out the bomb. Huge performance upgrade over every single game.
Coincidence they found the almighty software? I think not. That was definitely planned. The only way AMD could over take nvideas tactic of seeing what they come out with and can adjust to it is to give out products to mislead nvidea to adjust to it, then update it to be capable of the performance it was set for in the first place.
Obviously this is all me theorizing, But to me at least it makes sense, that the software upgrade was preplanned to overtake nvidea. If it happens again for 8xxx and 7xx who knows, maybe nvidea learnt their lesson. But i have a feeling the 7xx series is going to be quite a good series after what happened this year.
To be honest if amd did plan this move out, it was genius.
Feel free to add your opinions to this, im curious what others think.

I doubt AMD planned to release a card with sub-optimal drivers just so they could later release a driver package that takes full advantage of the card. If it happened immediately after the 6xx cards dropped, then maybe, but not 8 months later. Much more likely that it is as they said - it's a new architecture and it took them a while to figure out the best way to use it. Really no advantage accrues to AMD when they release a new card with what were widely regarded as sub-par drivers.
post #570 of 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I doubt AMD planned to release a card with sub-optimal drivers just so they could later release a driver package that takes full advantage of the card. If it happened immediately after the 6xx cards dropped, then maybe, but not 8 months later. Much more likely that it is as they said - it's a new architecture and it took them a while to figure out the best way to use it. Really no advantage accrues to AMD when they release a new card with what were widely regarded as sub-par drivers.

I have to agree with this. It would make no sense from a sales standpoint to postpone a performance-enhancing driver. It's in their best interest to make the cards perform the absolute best that they can from the get go.
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