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[The Verge] Gabe Newell confirms Steam Box - Page 12

post #111 of 260
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-10-newell-living-room-friendly-pc-steam-packages-to-compete-with-next-gen-consoles
Quote:
Newell said. "Well certainly our hardware will be a very controlled environment.

Just what every PC gamer has been crying out for! Huzzah!
Quote:
Steam Support has suspended this Steam Box.

You will not be able to access this Steam Box until you accept the new Steam Subscriber Agreement.

Please read this agreement in its entirety. You must agree with the terms of the Steam Subscriber Agreement to continue.

I AGREE----I DISAGREE

Edited by GrizzleBoy - 12/10/12 at 6:54am
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post #112 of 260
Quote:
It depends, if it's a capable media player and Valve starts selling movies, etc on Steam too then I can see it really taking off, I can see a bunch of PC gamers grabbing one if it's at the right price simply to have a way to game on the TV if they feel like it.

Most likely they'd make a loss on the actual box but make it up with profits from Steam, much like how Sony and MS lose money on each console sold but gain plenty of money from the games for them.

I can definitely see people like 'us' buying it. I'm just not convinced that number is anywhere near 70-100 million like the current console install bases.

Your right that Sony and Microsoft both launched loss leading consoles this generation. The problem is that neither one made a profit in their gaming divisions while selling their consoles for a loss. Sony lost literally every single penny it made on the PS1 and PS2 in the first four years of the PS3. Microsoft will only just break even on the xbox 360 by the end of it's lifetime. God knows the original xbox losses will never be made up for. The idea of a loss leader sounds like a good one but almost never works out in the real world. If Valve is smart they will follow the Nintendo model of only selling hardware for a profit and never straying from it. It's the reason why even consoles like the GC with small install bases still made them a ton of money at the end of the day.
    
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post #113 of 260
Unless Valve is going to be getting games on this "Steam Box" that will not work on PCs...not many people will buy this.

The only users of Steam right now are people that have PC's already (and I am including the Macs in there too). So if this console only plays a selection of games that is also available on the PC version of Steam...why would you buy it? I guess if it ends up being a cheap PC some people might buy one rather than build one or go get a prebuilt, but I just don't see people doing that. I think they'd just connect their laptop to their TV if they had a desire to play a low hardware requirement game on their TV.

Now if they are able to get console exclusives on there...people will buy it...but at the same time I think the PC community that made Valve what they are would be very, very angry.
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post #115 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post

@Alitar: can't quote all of that because it'll kill my phone frown.gif
While its true that other advancements would be made, you have got to be kidding yourself if you really think gameplay is going to see the biggest improvements first :/
Level design, especially in FPS's have taken a huge nosedive in quality. Couple that with no modding tools for most shooters and we're sitting with a problem. While the set pieces are all nice and shiny, the complexity of these levels are pretty laughable compared to what was.

Compared to what exactly? There was plenty of trash before CoD. There are a lot more good games now then there were back then. People actually know how to make a decent game nowadays and less games come shipped with horrible, glaring design flaws even if that does still happen quite often.

Who is going to want to design anything for the Steambox besides Valve? Is there going to be some massive exodus that I don't know about? The Steambox will do nothing for PC gaming. Nothing the PC can't do anyway. Following your logic, there should have been a ton of gameplay development on consoles. Since I have yet to see that happen... wait, what was the point of the Steambox again?
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post #116 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post

@Alitar: can't quote all of that because it'll kill my phone frown.gif
While its true that other advancements would be made, you have got to be kidding yourself if you really think gameplay is going to see the biggest improvements first :/
Level design, especially in FPS's have taken a huge nosedive in quality. Couple that with no modding tools for most shooters and we're sitting with a problem. While the set pieces are all nice and shiny, the complexity of these levels are pretty laughable compared to what was.

Compared to what exactly? There was plenty of trash before CoD. There are a lot more good games now then there were back then. People actually know how to make a decent game nowadays and less games come shipped with horrible, glaring design flaws even if that does still happen quite often.

Who is going to want to design anything for the Steambox besides Valve? Is there going to be some massive exodus that I don't know about? The Steambox will do nothing for PC gaming. Nothing the PC can't do anyway. Following your logic, there should have been a ton of gameplay development on consoles. Since I have yet to see that happen... wait, what was the point of the Steambox again?

Compared to what? The stalwarts UT99-UT2004, Doom II, Quake... You know, games that don't move in a straight line, and don't yell at you when you leave "the combat zone". Hell I'd even go so far as to say Delta Force 1, but that's pushing it a tad tongue.gif. At least you had total freedom of movement :/

A lot more good games? I beg to differ. There's a lot more media exposure to games these days compared to back in the day, but seriously, the amount of good PS2 games really outnumber a lot of the "good" console games of today. Still there's a lot of games from the 90's-2006 that are better than what we have now. Yes there were a lot of crappy games too, but you're always going to have those.

And with games being "as good as they are these days", the glaring flaws we see today are just as bad if not worse. Worst of all the manpower and funding involved in today's game development faaar exceeds the old days... And yet we see things like Day-1-no-clip-bound-to-key Dead Island levels of fail in this day and age of "good games"

And I don't think things are going to be designed for steambox per se. Just looks like its going to be a fancy labeled HTPC with some dev backing really. But w/e. We don't know what Valve are going to do, so all we can do is shout at each other call each other fanboys :/

And what about my logic? In the ideal world, one target platform for gaming would be utopia, but things like corporate greed make this a less-than-ideal solution.
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post #117 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post

Compared to what? The stalwarts UT99-UT2004, Doom II, Quake...

Is that like a joke? Have you seen Quake I-IV specifically Quake III Arena? If you call CoD repetitive... Quake should be your hell. What about Quake anyway? It's a boring game. I played all 4 games. The levels are horribly designed, not only can the mazes take you hours to explore AFTER you killed everything, which by the way is extremely mundane and not engaging at all, but the gameplay itselfwas very stale. There was little difference between Quake and Doom. It's like dating twins. Sure there are noticeable big differences here and there, but they look and feel the same in the end, don't they? Okay, bad analogy but you get the idea.

I played many games during that time myself, that was my youth. Specifically, Brood War, Warrior Kings, some other random shooting games. I think I did play CS around this time but Im not too sure. Anyway, all of those games were unpolished and released with huge issues that were fixed in later patches. Others were not fixed at all. So when you say, back in my day... yeah well back in those days tons of games sucked. We remember the good ones because everyone remembers the good ones. It's universally true though, that gameplay IS better now than it was back then. Why? Because many gameplay elements simply weren't explored at that time or they weren't possible to simulate due to hardware restrictions.
Quote:
You know, games that don't move in a straight line, and don't yell at you when you leave "the combat zone". Hell I'd even go so far as to say Delta Force 1, but that's pushing it a tad tongue.gif. At least you had total freedom of movement :/

That's a personal preference, it has little to do with the actual game quality it self. Besides you probably play DayZ in which case you do have something to play. And that is at the very least, at most you have a ton of games that offer freedom of movement.
Quote:
A lot more good games? I beg to differ. There's a lot more media exposure to games these days compared to back in the day, but seriously, the amount of good PS2 games really outnumber a lot of the "good" console games of today. Still there's a lot of games from the 90's-2006 that are better than what we have now.

Well you may be right, I didn't play that much PS2. I only had like maybe... 5 games.
Quote:
Yes there were a lot of crappy games too, but you're always going to have those.
And with games being "as good as they are these days", the glaring flaws we see today are just as bad if not worse. Worst of all the manpower and funding involved in today's game development faaar exceeds the old days... And yet we see things like Day-1-no-clip-bound-to-key Dead Island levels of fail in this day and age of "good games"

True, the flaws in gameplay we see today are just plain embarassing coonsidering the manpower and funding thrown at game development these days. However, there are still plenty of awesome titles. Specifically, I am looking forward to the next Rome Total War.

Now here is something interesting, I actually play Rome: Total War a lot more than other TW titles. Why? The Mods. That specifically is something that I do hate about new titles. They come locked, and with little modding capability. Yes, I want it back for obvious reasons. So when we say back then, the only thing I truly miss is the open nature of those first pioneers. They let the player base fix what is broken. Nowadays everything comes locked and with little chance to fix anything.
Quote:
And I don't think things are going to be designed for steambox per se. Just looks like its going to be a fancy labeled HTPC with some dev backing really. But w/e. We don't know what Valve are going to do, so all we can do is shout at each other call each other fanboys :/
And what about my logic? In the ideal world, one target platform for gaming would be utopia, but things like corporate greed make this a less-than-ideal solution.

Well I'm not calling you a fanboy, and by your logic I mean your earlier statement that the steambox is going to impact gameplay development. How can that be true when Xbox 360 and PS3 have been out there for ten years, and that very aspect has stagnated? Sure there are plenty of good games, god knows I own over 50 PS3 games but, nothing revolutionary has come out for quite a while. Everything is the same regurgitated crap that we all love and whine about. The only thing that makes it worth playing is the engaging story or immersive experience that we pay 60$ for at launch. Is that wrong? Yes it is, which is why I play my PC far more often than my console. What would I need a steambox for? There is zero need for it. It does nothing.

Valve does this for the money, they want people to invest themselves in Steam permanently away from Microsoft. Like I said, a legit tactic but, it does NOTHING for PC gamers. NOTHING. This is strictly to put his business ahead of others. Which is why I hope the steambox crashes and burns. The only thing Gabe is good for is driving the next Half Life out.

It's too bad Valve is turning the way of the very thing we all call "evil" on this forum. Heck, it's game development might be tripleA but it's promoting what we hate about gaming in general. Isn't that wrong?
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post #118 of 260
As long as they don't abandon the Windows platform (Which would in turn make me have to hunt down and murder Gabe Newell), I have no issue with this.

One thing is for sure, it won't be able to compete with the actual console markets big players such as Sony and Microsoft.

That, and they'll lack games. All they'll have is a few indie games and their own games. Will big AAA publishers like Activision and EA make Linux versions of their games for this console? Possible...but no. Much like steam for linux, it's a good idea, but it won't start a mass exodus to Linux/this console. Windows will always be the primary platform, whether valve thinks so or not.

This "steam box" would most likely end up like the Ouya is supposed to.
Edited by Paladin Goo - 12/10/12 at 9:16am
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post #119 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

About the only positive thing about this is that the use of open GL will most likely be more common.
Beyond that this gives valve even more power over people's games, it makes part of the PC gaming scene use fixed hardware which will stagnate the technical progression, it will force valve to support lower end specs for a really long time on all their games, it will divert development time to something that's only available for a fraction of the market and so on.
All in all I see this as a bad thing though I do hope that open GL will be more popular in the future.
I think people would be singing a different tune if it was EA or ubisoft announcing this... Valve is just another greedy corporation that wishes to tie people to their system as much as they can. They already have a huge portion of people hooked, unable to leave the service without leaving their games.

Fixed hardware isn't all bad. It encourages developers to actually optimize their code instead of just sloppily slapping it down. That then optimized code for the Steam Box could be directly used for the PC binaries as well ( for the most part, with some changes ) since we'll all be using OpenGL.

And really? Force Valve to support lower end specs? Have you played any source games lately? You can practically play them on your phone at this point. They've been supporting lower ends specs and will continue to do so regardless of a console. CS, Portal, TF, Dota, HL, DoD, and any other games of theirs none of which need a high end graphics card.

And honestly what technical progression are we talking about? Games in my eyes have been constant rehashes of others for at least the 5 years. Graphically, gameplay-wise, and any other aspects. Can we get some shooters that require a bit more skill? Can we get some new rpg classes? Can we get some new strategy games, that aren't copies of halo ( can't remember the exact name of it ), starcraft, dota or LoL? Or their countless other copies. Can we get some new super hero games that haven't been remade 10 times over by now? How about some good stories to go with our games, god knows the ones we get now are just place holders. And the workings under all of the above aren't really changing that much either. Same old crap with the same old bugs and same old style and same old game play.

We are already pretty stagnant in my eyes and I believe we need a change. Not saying Steam will be that change, but they aren't going to hurt it any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

Compared to what exactly? There was plenty of trash before CoD. There are a lot more good games now then there were back then. People actually know how to make a decent game nowadays and less games come shipped with horrible, glaring design flaws even if that does still happen quite often.

Name a few? In my eyes 90% of the games released in the last 5 years or so have either been crappy remakes, sequels using the same dull engine ( CoD ), or new games that don't have any game play aspect about them, just fancy graphics to make people say wow. More so in the FPS genre, but it's also prevalent in every other genre. They just aren't going anywhere.

I'll take my Atari and NES over any current gen console still to this very day.
post #120 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

I'll take my Atari and NES over any current gen console still to this very day.

That's all opinion based, but I will name a few for me that stack up every bit against the games I played on the NES/SNES/N64/PSX/PS2/XBOX years ago.

Skyrim, Assassins Creed (Series), Call of Duty 4, Minecraft, Natural Selection 2, Fallout 3, Far Cry 3, Borderlands 2, Batman AA and AC, Portal 2 etc.

I could go on and list pretty much everything Rockstar has made this passed 5 years as well, and say it's every bit as good as pong and the original NES Mario Bros.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [The Verge] Gabe Newell confirms Steam Box