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[The Verge] Gabe Newell confirms Steam Box - Page 22

post #211 of 260
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Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Cool story bro! thumb.gif

I'm with you, guy needs to get out of this thread. He seems like he is looking for something to cry about.
    
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post #212 of 260
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Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

You're thinking the wrong group then. Not everyone who uses Steam are hardcore enthusiasts that build their own systems, or buy 'gaming' rigs * cough* alienware *cough*. There is a lot of average users of Steam who are using every day OEM computers and have no idea they can hook it up to a TV.

Also this, I have friends who prefer the ease of consoles but love steam and it's services, I could seem them buying this thumb.gif
    
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post #213 of 260
The anti-steam trolls are still posting in here. Give me a break -____-
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post #214 of 260
I'm quite surprised more people are up in arms about this... the side effects I see here are:

  • A closed environment... no adding extra hardware or software to the box
  • A greater DRM/anti piracy measures
  • Reduced modding ability
  • A greater drive towards controller based interface and movement mechanisms
  • Reduced drive on graphics due to having a controlled system

I dunno, I see why this is good and bad, I don't really know what to make of it. The issue is, if they want this mainstream, they have to market the hell out of it... which means compromises.
post #215 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Have fun with that.

The only way to combat DRM is to not support it. I don't see why people get angry when someone states they don't want to support DRM. You like DRM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

As someone else said, have fun with that. Richard Stallman chooses not to use anything but free code, and while I agree with the principles of free programs I wouldn't give up the stuff I gain, especially considering it's not really giving me many disadvantages now. (Steam's offline mode sucking being the only real one I have right now, until Valve actually start taking games from my account anyway...Which I doubt will ever happen and is most likely only in there as one of those legal "What ifs?" just in case they actually have to for some reason later, such as if a player uses an exploit for free games)

Just go look at my thread about Steam stealing my games. Then come back and ask me about the disadvantages. You can also tell me about the advantages, as I have found exactly 0. I only use Steam when I'm required to to launch a game. It's nothing but a launcher than launches the launcher that launches my game. It's a redundant piece of software I don't want or need in any way at all. Why I need to have it wasting resources and HDD space is beyond me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breck View Post

Yes because steam is obviously out to ruin your experience and all your fun. /sarcasm
Stop acting like DRM kills you, steam rarely has any issues and it works great.

See my other responses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

No, you wouldn't. If there was no Steam, publishers would make their own. Much like a few companies do already. And I much prefer Steams business than I do the others, which are much more infamous for just stupid stuff.

You prefer one DRM over the other. Imagine if you didn't have to have any DRM at all? Steam could still have a program that allows them to do 100% of everything they do now. They could offer all the same sales and all the same features. But imagine also that this wasn't forced on you or anyone else, and that people who only wanted to simply play the game, could launch the game from its own executable. Marvelous isn't it? Why can't we have that now? No reason at all. It has to do with control, closing things down and locking you in. Gabe preaching about openness and slamming others like MS for closing down their platforms is hypocrisy at its finest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post

The anti-steam trolls are still posting in here. Give me a break -____-

I see a lot more "blind following sheep" than I see "hating trolls" that's for sure. I don't understand why people think its great to have intrusive DRM forced on them for no reason other than to control and watch you. We're not hating this for no reason, most of us have very valid reasons. The reasoning for requiring this stuff with no exception is weak at best though.

If Steam is such a great value added service and so loved, they should thrive by being optional. Nay, if they are as great as they say they are, and as great as the fans say they are, they would flourish just the same. So why not let people have the choice? Surely, such a great program and service can stand on its merits alone, without needing to hold you and your games at gunpoint.
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M06
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post #216 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuell View Post

Just go look at my thread about Steam stealing my games. Then come back and ask me about the disadvantages. You can also tell me about the advantages, as I have found exactly 0. I only use Steam when I'm required to to launch a game. It's nothing but a launcher than launches the launcher that launches my game. It's a redundant piece of software I don't want or need in any way at all. Why I need to have it wasting resources and HDD space is beyond me.
See my other responses.

Just to clarify, they aren't your games. You have no legal ownership unless it arrived on physical media. You license software. Just wanted to clear that up smile.gif

Secondly, concepts may be beyond you... but unfortunately, computer games have many stakeholders, the customer being only one part of a larger picture. When a game is created, it's not created solely for the customer, thus, the concept that all areas of design should be user driven is simply unrealistic and somewhat naive. Now, you can view that on the other side, games aren't created solely for investors... they are but a piece in a larger puzzle. As such, compromise has to be expected from all parties... investors have to accept that they cannot simply stick in a ton of DRM and expect consumers to be happy... but at the same time, the customer cannot expect a piece of software that is free of any kind of marketing tools, basic DRM etc...

Life is full of compromise and in my opinion, Steam is a great compromise. I guess it'd be nice to launch games without Steam, but... it's something we have to put up with. It's all about balance and realistic expectation. Your views hit me as somewhat utopian and unrealistic.
post #217 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breck View Post

Also this, I have friends who prefer the ease of consoles but love steam and it's services, I could seem them buying this thumb.gif

same here I have friend who just put together is gaming machine and still uses his xbox 360 and still gets games for it.
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post #218 of 260
Hey Fuell:

Or how about you stop coming off as a pretentious hipster, and just stop trying to preach about YOUR blind hatred towards Steam.

Besides having a huge Steam library, I have a solid DRM-free GOG and GamersGate library, not to mention a cupboard fill of games on disc, and games I've bought directly from dev websites... Same thing applies to my Xbox.

I'm hardly strapped down or trapped in your one-dimensional "all-or-nothing" bubble of joy. Again, I understand why ppl hate on Steam, but your incessant whining about how Steam is robbing you of your entitlement just makes you look like an OWS-style sheepie.

I like having DRM-free stuff as much as the next oldie, but you cannot deny that the advantages of having Steam far outweighs the tiny inconvenience of logging in for the most part.
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post #219 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk View Post

Just to clarify, they aren't your games. You have no legal ownership unless it arrived on physical media. You license software. Just wanted to clear that up smile.gif
Secondly, concepts may be beyond you... but unfortunately, computer games have many stakeholders, the customer being only one part of a larger picture. When a game is created, it's not created solely for the customer, thus, the concept that all areas of design should be user driven is simply unrealistic and somewhat naive. Now, you can view that on the other side, games aren't created solely for investors... they are but a piece in a larger puzzle. As such, compromise has to be expected from all parties... investors have to accept that they cannot simply stick in a ton of DRM and expect consumers to be happy... but at the same time, the customer cannot expect a piece of software that is free of any kind of marketing tools, basic DRM etc...
Life is full of compromise and in my opinion, Steam is a great compromise. I guess it'd be nice to launch games without Steam, but... it's something we have to put up with. It's all about balance and realistic expectation. Your views hit me as somewhat utopian and unrealistic.

Well, there are many publishers that are DRM free. I played games for 15 years on PC without the need of an intrusive launcher program. Sure, people are free to make their own choice in either supporting or boycotting, thats their right. I'm not trying to argue anyones opinion, I mainly take offense when people get angry when you don't agree and like everything they like. I seem to be getting called on my opinions of something, everyone can post their opinions, I'm not posting blind hate. What I would like to see is more people actually become aware of just how bad things are getting with DRM and such and actually take that into account. People can make changes if they vote with their wallets. But thats up to them.

And about the game, even if you buy it on disk you don't own the game itself if you want to get so technical about things. It was quite obvious what I was talking about...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren View Post

Hey Fuell:
Or how about you stop coming off as a pretentious hipster, and just stop trying to preach about YOUR blind hatred towards Steam.
Besides having a huge Steam library, I have a solid DRM-free GOG and GamersGate library, not to mention a cupboard fill of games on disc, and games I've bought directly from dev websites... Same thing applies to my Xbox.
I'm hardly strapped down or trapped in your one-dimensional "all-or-nothing" bubble of joy. Again, I understand why ppl hate on Steam, but your incessant whining about how Steam is robbing you of your entitlement just makes you look like an OWS-style sheepie.
I like having DRM-free stuff as much as the next oldie, but you cannot deny that the advantages of having Steam far outweighs the tiny inconvenience of logging in for the most part.

I'm a pretentious hipster because I do not like what you like? Geez, I have to blindly allow DRM just because you want me to I guess, then I'm just a normal person... Yea... Good point, you come across as very mature. I simply stated my case for why I feel forced DRM is bad, your response "wahhhhhhh". Glad you joined the debate.

I'm glad you own a bunch of games, good for you thumb.gif

I'm not whining about anything either, I'm stating my position on Intrusive DRM with valid points for my concerns. Your taking this in a very immature direction just because someone has a differing opinion. Did I call people stupid children who don't know better because they support Steam? No. I simply say that I wish I wasn't forced to have such intrusive DRM to play games that really have nothing to do with the "service". And Steam isn't robbing me of my "entitlement" they quite literally robbed me of paid games. OWS also has nothing to do with this in any way, and I can't believe your calling such organized protesters "sheep". It is hardly the path of a sheep rolleyes.gif

And last statement. I'm glad you enjoy Steam, and its benefits you, thats absolutely great. (Seriously, no sarcasm) If it does something that helps people, thats fine, but my personal opinion is that it shouldn't be forced on everyone. It doesn't benefit me, I have no use for it, it simply takes up HDD space and system resources that I would rather have free.

I fail to see why I'm not entitled to my own personal opinion if its against something you people like. Sad your so infatuated with your DRM that you must childishly attack others who voice opposition.

Edit> Plus, on a board such as OCN, I don't think I have to state that we all pretty much know that DRM almost never stops or even slows piracy, but it can very often hurt legitimate customers. Why such a backwards, flawed, and failed system must be required doesn't stand up to logic. I almost want to post that pic of the DRM vs Piracy with DVD's pic. So classic, and so true.
Edited by Fuell - 12/13/12 at 6:00am
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post #220 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuell View Post

Well, there are many publishers that are DRM free. I played games for 15 years on PC without the need of an intrusive launcher program. Sure, people are free to make their own choice in either supporting or boycotting, thats their right. I'm not trying to argue anyones opinion, I mainly take offense when people get angry when you don't agree and like everything they like. I seem to be getting called on my opinions of something, everyone can post their opinions, I'm not posting blind hate. What I would like to see is more people actually become aware of just how bad things are getting with DRM and such and actually take that into account. People can make changes if they vote with their wallets. But thats up to them.
And about the game, even if you buy it on disk you don't own the game itself if you want to get so technical about things. It was quite obvious what I was talking about...

I know what you were saying, I just wanted to clarify as you see a lot of people moaning about it being their game. All they own is any physical media, no code.

In terms of the 15 years thing, that's true... but times change. For 15 years we have seen the rise of consoles and them really hitting mainstream. I don't know any teenage or older guy that hasn't owned an Xbox or PS3. Back in the day, it was relatively rare to have a console!

As such, the drive towards closed loops systems like consoles and the increased piracy and related losses (I'm not against piracy, I think it's inevitable... but given current markets, it's hard to deny losses incurred), PC game development has become risky and thus stale (hence so many follow ups and minimal creativity). This isn't so much driven by developers, but more by the lack of financial input from capital investors. As such, to make PC gaming still viable and not go to a console only solution, we will have to see compromise. It's crap, everyone loves the old days, but we move forward and times change. I for one would love if I can go back in the day and buy my copy of C&C: RA2 and not have any other interface bar the game, but I know such a move is rather unrealistic... especially with new titles.

I think people are aware how bad DRM can get, this is why we saw backlash at such draconian measures implement on Ubisoft "always internet" games. However, most people don't consider Steam draconian and thus we don't see the tirade of abuse against it. I personally see the DRM aspects of it (like no re-salable games)... but I also see the advantages of it (on demand gaming, cloud storage etc...)... so we consider it a trade offf, a compromise.

Things are always better in the past, you best believe in 20 years time that the guys who are 15 or 16 now will be telling their younger peers on forums about how good gaming was.
Edited by 98uk - 12/13/12 at 6:30am
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