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[Kotaku] The Good And Bad of Battlefield 3, One Year (Or So) Later - Page 24

post #231 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by gab195 View Post

I was extremely pumped for the release of BF3, I preordered and everything. But I think it just kind of fell short of my expectations and I could never get past that when I was playing the game. Still a great game just that the novelty of it wore out very quickly.

I was extremely pumped for the game, when I finally got it a few days ago it was well above my expectations.
post #232 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

I was extremely pumped for the game, when I finally got it a few days ago it was well above my expectations.

Well hopefully you get your moneys worth in enjoyment out of it. I enjoyed it a good while, but it lost its mystique much more quickly than I would have anticipated. Even expansions have had trouble holding my interest in this game... and Aftermath isn't helping. Armored Kill was fun... Close Quarters was.... meh, appealed more to CoD players imho. End Game, we'll see.

After all the great games already made in years passed, it's very hard for new games to compete anymore. Honestly, I'd be happy with a re-release of BF2 with absolutely NO changes except for a graphics/engine update. BF2 with BC2 level destruction and BF3 graphics... THAT would make my year. Basically, bring back commander and a LOT of people will be very happy.
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post #233 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

I was extremely pumped for the game, when I finally got it a few days ago it was well above my expectations.

Well hopefully you get your moneys worth in enjoyment out of it. I enjoyed it a good while, but it lost its mystique much more quickly than I would have anticipated. Even expansions have had trouble holding my interest in this game... and Aftermath isn't helping. Armored Kill was fun... Close Quarters was.... meh, appealed more to CoD players imho. End Game, we'll see.

After all the great games already made in years passed, it's very hard for new games to compete anymore. Honestly, I'd be happy with a re-release of BF2 with absolutely NO changes except for a graphics/engine update. BF2 with BC2 level destruction and BF3 graphics... THAT would make my year. Basically, bring back commander and a LOT of people will be very happy.

Your argument was relevant until you said "COD players" as if that is a bad thing.
BF3 level of destruction is still higher than BC2's...
When I look back at BF2... it has gotten dated quickly. BF3 fixed so many things that BF2 had an issue with. One of the major issues in BF2 was vehicle damage.
post #234 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

Your argument was relevant until you said "COD players" as if that is a bad thing.
BF3 level of destruction is still higher than BC2's...
When I look back at BF2... it has gotten dated quickly. BF3 fixed so many things that BF2 had an issue with. One of the major issues in BF2 was vehicle damage.

No, a major thing with BF2 is spawning and claymores. His argument is perfectly valid. Like myself, he found an aspect of an expansion to be geared toward COD players. It's a perfectly valid opinion and point of view.
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post #235 of 308
The frantic pace of CQ maps is definitely geared towards CoD players. I never denoted this to be a good or bad thing, they're just trying to increase profits and player base. I, personally, don't like that play style, which is why I don't play CoD. For some reason I have less dislike for Counterstrike though... not sure why?

As for destruction between BC2 and BF3, BF3 may have more volume of destruction due to larger maps, but i found BC2 destruction to be more satisfying. A mix between the two, or more completely destructable buildings in BF3 would be improvement imho. Leveling a battlefield to eliminate cover was a favorite passtime of mine in BC2 lol. I can imagine how much more dynamic Karkand would be if you could destroy more buildings... heck, down the apartment buildings biggrin.gif The tower falling at the end of the round is one thing, but i mean completely dynamic map deformation. Maybe in BF4? frown.gif

I found BF2 to be perfectly fine in balance and had no issues with anything mentioned so far. I found vehicles to be easy enough to destroy for what they were. Helos could be dropped if you wanted them down bad enough. Same for basically every other vehicle. Heck, BF2 still had bombers and those didn't feel op. I could drop them with an AT rocket usually when they lined up a bomb run. If you were referring to damage dealt BY vehicles, I thought it was balanced there as well. I'm not going into detail since it doesn't really matter, but i don't recall having any issues of feeling a specific vehicle was OP or unbalanced.

I thought claymores were fine. They feel the same to me now in BF3 as they did in BF2.

Personally, I liked the spawning system better. It brought into play a system of accountability to teamwork, and worked perfectly with the commander system. Commander relayed messages to squad leader. Squad leader relays messages to team. Prevents clogging up communications with all the blaring of orders and such. Limited spawn also made a squad feel more like a team effort and real squad instead of a random group of idgets playing hero.

Bf3 has a lot of strong points, graphics being one of them since it's a modern AAA game. What else would you expect? At the time, BF2 graphics were great as well. The graphics at least will appear dated... look how old the game is. Hence my desire for a re-release with the newest engine revision. Same for Bf2142 really... I think 2142 was a highly unappreciated game in the series. Maybe BF4 will be a mix of them all and go the TC: Future Soldier route of near future? That may just be the sweet spot for all people involved.
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post #236 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto View Post

No, a major thing with BF2 is spawning and claymores. His argument is perfectly valid. Like myself, he found an aspect of an expansion to be geared toward COD players. It's a perfectly valid opinion and point of view.

You say that as if CoD is the first game to do fast paced combat, though.

The CoD comparisons have always bugged me, because there's a whole lot more to CoD than fast paced combat, all of which is absent from Battlefield. The close quarters stuff didn't even come about because of CoD, but because this is what DICE saw the community asking for and no, it's not because much of the CoD community came to Battlefield, but because this is what has been apparent since even the days of Battlefield 2 (Strike at Karkand was a popular map and it was a hectic mess of a map full of nade spam and twitchy engagements).

And even if CQ was geared towards CoD players, Battlefield did it so much better than most of the CoD series. The maps were made up of multiple levels, giving them so much more depth compared to many CoD maps. I can't honestly say that the CQ experience resembled a CoD game at all, even with Gun Game and the domination style modes (both of which have been around pre-CoD).

I didn't see it as DICE trying to aim at the CoD community, but to give its own community some variety. Battlefield 3 is a game that does multiple things very well. I don't have to go to a different game in order to get a different experience, I can just go to a different set of maps. If you don't enjoy that style of play, well, you simply don't have to play those maps.
post #237 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

It was an even bigger complaint in Bad Company 2. Hundreds of youtube videos to point that out as well as well as my own personal experience. None of them have been all that great, TBH, but BF3 is definitely much better than BC2 in that department.
I won't argue about BF3's community being divided, but how is that any different from past Battlefield games and their expansions?
This last one just makes no sense to me at all. Battlefield 3's sound design is absolutely amazing and everything sounds so much more natural. I don't know how BF3 would feel more like an airsoft match when weapons in Bad Company 2 took more shots to kill than weapons in BF3. I can understand that these are just opinions, but really? Battlefield 3 improved so much on immersion that it's basically unmatched for me as far as multiplayer games go. That's not to say I didn't think BC2 had excellent immersion and sound design, but that's one thing BF3 really improved upon and did insanely well.

Disagree on all points. The sound design is in BC2 is a BIG reason why I abandoned BF3. Whenever I fire any weapon in BC2, it literally reminds me of that scene in Heat with the bank robbery (the sound effects were that good). Every gun sounds and feels powerful. The BF3 weapons on the other hand just sound muffled and generic. I don't know how the BF3 sounds feel natural to you.

The immersion in BC2 due a lot of things including the better sound effects make it a far more immersive and fun wargame to me.

And I am not saying BC2 is perfect in any way. There are definitely a few elements in BF3 where I would like implemented in BC2. But, I have the feeling the guys over at Dice put a lot more hours into BC2.

You cannot possibly tell me BF3 sounds better after watching this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ivxaga70RI

Even better comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrE9EWHftpg
Edited by [-Snake-] - 12/13/12 at 11:54am
    
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post #238 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

The frantic pace of CQ maps is definitely geared towards CoD players. I never denoted this to be a good or bad thing, they're just trying to increase profits and player base. I, personally, don't like that play style, which is why I don't play CoD. For some reason I have less dislike for Counterstrike though... not sure why?

As for destruction between BC2 and BF3, BF3 may have more volume of destruction due to larger maps, but i found BC2 destruction to be more satisfying. A mix between the two, or more completely destructable buildings in BF3 would be improvement imho. Leveling a battlefield to eliminate cover was a favorite passtime of mine in BC2 lol. I can imagine how much more dynamic Karkand would be if you could destroy more buildings... heck, down the apartment buildings biggrin.gif The tower falling at the end of the round is one thing, but i mean completely dynamic map deformation. Maybe in BF4? frown.gif

I found BF2 to be perfectly fine in balance and had no issues with anything mentioned so far. 2: I found vehicles to be easy enough to destroy for what they were. Helos could be dropped if you wanted them down bad enough. Same for basically every other vehicle. Heck, BF2 still had bombers and those didn't feel op. I could drop them with an AT rocket usually when they lined up a bomb run. If you were referring to damage dealt BY vehicles, I thought it was balanced there as well. I'm not going into detail since it doesn't really matter, but i don't recall having any issues of feeling a specific vehicle was OP or unbalanced.

I thought claymores were fine. They feel the same to me now in BF3 as they did in BF2.

Personally, I liked the spawning system better. It brought into play a system of accountability to teamwork, and worked perfectly with the commander system. Commander relayed messages to squad leader. Squad leader relays messages to team. Prevents clogging up communications with all the blaring of orders and such. Limited spawn also made a squad feel more like a team effort and real squad 3: instead of a random group of idgets playing hero.

Bf3 has a lot of strong points, graphics being one of them since it's a modern AAA game. What else would you expect? At the time, BF2 graphics were great as well. The graphics at least will appear dated... look how old the game is. Hence my desire for a re-release with the newest engine revision. Same for Bf2142 really... I think 2142 was a highly unappreciated game in the series. Maybe BF4 will be a mix of them all and go the TC: Future Soldier route of near future? That may just be the sweet spot for all people involved.

Bold: Too bad BF2 was made before COD MP really kicked off. CQ in BF3 and BF2 are no different from each other. Both can be fast paced, or you can take it slow on both ends.

Frostbite 2 has everything from Frostbite 1 in the destruction department, they just could not incorporate it fully with BF3.
Bold2: Yeah, the physics in BF2 made it so vehicles would be damaged by even driving it.

The spawning system is the same in both BF3 and BF2. Spawn at a captured flag, perma base or on a team-mate (squad leader in BF2), so they actually improved the spawn system slightly.
Bold3: Seen in both BF2 and BF3.

Think of it like this. BF3 is to GT3 as BF4 is to GT4. (Kind of a coincidence that both series, Gran Turismo and Battlefield, may have gone through the same thing at one point.)
post #239 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

You say that as if CoD is the first game to do fast paced combat, though.
The CoD comparisons have always bugged me, because there's a whole lot more to CoD than fast paced combat, all of which is absent from Battlefield. The close quarters stuff didn't even come about because of CoD, but because this is what DICE saw the community asking for and no, it's not because much of the CoD community came to Battlefield, but because this is what has been apparent since even the days of Battlefield 2 (Strike at Karkand was a popular map and it was a hectic mess of a map full of nade spam and twitchy engagements).
And even if CQ was geared towards CoD players, Battlefield did it so much better than most of the CoD series. The maps were made up of multiple levels, giving them so much more depth compared to many CoD maps. I can't honestly say that the CQ experience resembled a CoD game at all, even with Gun Game and the domination style modes (both of which have been around pre-CoD).
I didn't see it as DICE trying to aim at the CoD community, but to give its own community some variety. Battlefield 3 is a game that does multiple things very well. I don't have to go to a different game in order to get a different experience, I can just go to a different set of maps. If you don't enjoy that style of play, well, you simply don't have to play those maps.

I don't think anyones saying CoD did it first... or even best for that matter. I used to greatly enjoy fast paced comabt. However, it was in the form of the Unreal Tournament series. There's also Serious Sam for that matter biggrin.gif

The BF series has traditionally been more even paced than the CoD series. I would think that after this many years, the decision to just 'add some variety' int he way they did, in the competitive nature of the market now, was a chance to take some of the CoD players who historically have claimed BF felt "too slow". Seeing as BF and CoD have been competing for years, this makes a lot of sense. I do agree that BF did it better for the most part in implementing this, however I simply just don't like it too much. Just me, that's all. I knows lot's of others who don't as well, but I also know several who do.

If anything, it was more comparing BF2 to BF3, CoD was just relevant to the CQ expansion... there have been too many threads of CoD vs BF already, and it doesn't need to happen here.

Above all, I just miss Commander... it's what made BF2 SO stand out imho. It really made it feel like an active battlefield with a chain of command.
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post #240 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

Bold: Too bad BF2 was made before COD MP really kicked off. CQ in BF3 and BF2 are no different from each other. Both can be fast paced, or you can take it slow on both ends.
Frostbite 2 has everything from Frostbite 1 in the destruction department, they just could not incorporate it fully with BF3.
Bold2: Yeah, the physics in BF2 made it so vehicles would be damaged by even driving it.
The spawning system is the same in both BF3 and BF2. Spawn at a captured flag, perma base or on a team-mate (squad leader in BF2), so they actually improved the spawn system slightly.
Bold3: Seen in both BF2 and BF3.
Think of it like this. BF3 is to GT3 as BF4 is to GT4. (Kind of a coincidence that both series, Gran Turismo and Battlefield, may have gone through the same thing at one point.)

- What does BF2 releasing before CoD MP getting big have to do with anything? BF2 and CoD were their own things. BF2 didn't have a Close Quarters DLC like BF3, and if you're referring to the few maps where you were IN buildings... that wasn't that fast paced and wasn't anything like CoD. BF2 didn't gear itself towards close quarters combat really. As for being fast paced... there's a definitely feeling difference between a fast paced BF round and a CoD round.

- A vehicle being damage while driving it is the complaint? I see that in BC2 and BF3 still... just depends what you're doing.

-The spawning system in BF isn't unique, but the difference between BF2 and BF3 is actually a rather major one. Spawning on the squad leader vs the whole squad. It completely eliminated the importance of the squad leader in BF3... especially without commander as well. I heard a LOT of complaints at Bf3 release, and even now, about missing commander and how limiting spawn to the leader or a beacon only would be an improvement in tactical and team based gameplay.

- There have always been and will always be idgets in games online... BF3 compared to BF2 though, BF3 allows more leniency to Hero complex gamers who don't play well with others, where BF2 squad tactics were more defined imho. Though, for the best squad style gameplay, I'd go back to older Tom Clancey games biggrin.gif Made for some FUN lans.
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