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[Kotaku] The Good And Bad of Battlefield 3, One Year (Or So) Later - Page 25

post #241 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

Bold: Too bad BF2 was made before COD MP really kicked off. CQ in BF3 and BF2 are no different from each other. Both can be fast paced, or you can take it slow on both ends.
Frostbite 2 has everything from Frostbite 1 in the destruction department, they just could not incorporate it fully with BF3.
Bold2: Yeah, the physics in BF2 made it so vehicles would be damaged by even driving it.
The spawning system is the same in both BF3 and BF2. Spawn at a captured flag, perma base or on a team-mate (squad leader in BF2), so they actually improved the spawn system slightly.
Bold3: Seen in both BF2 and BF3.
Think of it like this. BF3 is to GT3 as BF4 is to GT4. (Kind of a coincidence that both series, Gran Turismo and Battlefield, may have gone through the same thing at one point.)

- What does BF2 releasing before CoD MP getting big have to do with anything? BF2 and CoD were their own things. BF2 didn't have a Close Quarters DLC like BF3, and if you're referring to the few maps where you were IN buildings... that wasn't that fast paced and wasn't anything like CoD. BF2 didn't gear itself towards close quarters combat really. As for being fast paced... there's a definitely feeling difference between a fast paced BF round and a CoD round.

- A vehicle being damage while driving it is the complaint? I see that in BC2 and BF3 still... just depends what you're doing.

-The spawning system in BF isn't unique, but the difference between BF2 and BF3 is actually a rather major one. Spawning on the squad leader vs the whole squad. It completely eliminated the importance of the squad leader in BF3... especially without commander as well. I heard a LOT of complaints at Bf3 release, and even now, about missing commander and how limiting spawn to the leader or a beacon only would be an improvement in tactical and team based gameplay.

- There have always been and will always be idgets in games online... BF3 compared to BF2 though, BF3 allows more leniency to Hero complex gamers who don't play well with others, where BF2 squad tactics were more defined imho. Though, for the best squad style gameplay, I'd go back to older Tom Clancey games biggrin.gif Made for some FUN lans.

The fact that BF2 had CQ that could be fast paced (thank you, sprint feature) and the IW making CODMW from the inspiration of BF2 but with different style of gameplay. Also, the fastest BF3 CQ match that I have done had 400 tickets and last a little over 20 minutes. And the fastest 1000 ticket match lasted around an hour. So yeah, the time to complete is obviously different from that of BF and COD. Though I will say, all of my BF2&3 matches always seem faster than whenever I play COD.

I have never damaged my vehicle by dropping it 10+ feet in BF3. In BF2, dropping it ~3 feet will damage it.

That limitation also hinders gameplay. Why only the squad leader? I would like a reason for only spawning on the squad leader would be better? What if your squad leader is dead? I rarely spawned on my squad leaders in BF2, they were either too far away from the target or dead.

Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is fun. But that's another subject for another day. I found it easier to avoid working with my team in BF2. You really just could avoid your whole team for the entire match and come out in the top 10. It seems a lot more difficult in BF3 to avoid your team as either they can spawn on you and help you or they are always near the objectives helping.
post #242 of 308
I think one of you guys is talking about CQ as in Close Quarters DLC maps and the other is talking about CQ as in the Conquest game mode.
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post #243 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by desmopilot View Post

I think one of you guys is talking about CQ as in Close Quarters DLC maps and the other is talking about CQ as in the Conquest game mode.

Yeah... I think I just realized the misunderstanding. Cause when I see CQ I think of Conquest. When I see CQC I think of Close Quarters Combat.
post #244 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by [-Snake-] View Post

Disagree on all points. The sound design is in BC2 is a BIG reason why I abandoned BF3. Whenever I fire any weapon in BC2, it literally reminds me of that scene in Heat with the bank robbery (the sound effects were that good). Every gun sounds and feels powerful. The BF3 weapons on the other hand just sound muffled and generic. I don't know how the BF3 sounds feel natural to you.
The immersion in BC2 due a lot of things including the better sound effects make it a far more immersive and fun wargame to me.
And I am not saying BC2 is perfect in any way. There are definitely a few elements in BF3 where I would like implemented in BC2. But, I have the feeling the guys over at Dice put a lot more hours into BC2.
You cannot possibly tell me BF3 sounds better after watching this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ivxaga70RI

Actually, that's kind of the problem I had with the sounds in Bad Company 2. They were still really good compared to other games, but they just sounded way too powerful and bass-y, kind of like a movie. Battlefield 3's gun sounds are much more crisp and mechanical. Both have a ways to go before sounding completely realistic, but I think BF3's sounds were more authentic and less artificial. That's just weapon sounds, as well. I just feel Battlefield 3's sounds on a whole were much more natural.
post #245 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by [-Snake-] View Post

Disagree on all points. The sound design is in BC2 is a BIG reason why I abandoned BF3. Whenever I fire any weapon in BC2, it literally reminds me of that scene in Heat with the bank robbery (the sound effects were that good). Every gun sounds and feels powerful. The BF3 weapons on the other hand just sound muffled and generic. I don't know how the BF3 sounds feel natural to you.
The immersion in BC2 due a lot of things including the better sound effects make it a far more immersive and fun wargame to me.
And I am not saying BC2 is perfect in any way. There are definitely a few elements in BF3 where I would like implemented in BC2. But, I have the feeling the guys over at Dice put a lot more hours into BC2.
You cannot possibly tell me BF3 sounds better after watching this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ivxaga70RI

Actually, that's kind of the problem I had with the sounds in Bad Company 2. They were still really good compared to other games, but they just sounded way too powerful and bass-y, kind of like a movie. Battlefield 3's gun sounds are much more crisp and mechanical. Both have a ways to go before sounding completely realistic, but I think BF3's sounds were more authentic and less artificial. That's just weapon sounds, as well. I just feel Battlefield 3's sounds on a whole were much more natural.

I was playing Gun Master mode last night for the first and last time. I could hear my character breath heavy from all the sprinting, I could hear every gun shot, it almost felt real. No other shooter was able to get me so immersed to the point that I was completely in the game and nothing could distract me. I even forgot what loud motivational music I was listening to, to help motivate me to get in the top five.
post #246 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

Actually, that's kind of the problem I had with the sounds in Bad Company 2. They were still really good compared to other games, but they just sounded way too powerful and bass-y, kind of like a movie. Battlefield 3's gun sounds are much more crisp and mechanical. Both have a ways to go before sounding completely realistic, but I think BF3's sounds were more authentic and less artificial. That's just weapon sounds, as well. I just feel Battlefield 3's sounds on a whole were much more natural.

BF3's weapon sounds are definitely closer to reality. There is hundreds of videos on youtube comparing BF3 guns to real life guns and they sound extremely similar. Obviously you need to wear ear protection in real life so your goi ng to be missing something but right down to the rate of fire in a lot of cases it is spot on.
    
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post #247 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

The fact that BF2 had CQ that could be fast paced (thank you, sprint feature) and the IW making CODMW from the inspiration of BF2 but with different style of gameplay. Also, the fastest BF3 CQ match that I have done had 400 tickets and last a little over 20 minutes. And the fastest 1000 ticket match lasted around an hour. So yeah, the time to complete is obviously different from that of BF and COD. Though I will say, all of my BF2&3 matches always seem faster than whenever I play COD.
I have never damaged my vehicle by dropping it 10+ feet in BF3. In BF2, dropping it ~3 feet will damage it.
That limitation also hinders gameplay. Why only the squad leader? I would like a reason for only spawning on the squad leader would be better? What if your squad leader is dead? I rarely spawned on my squad leaders in BF2, they were either too far away from the target or dead.
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is fun. But that's another subject for another day. I found it easier to avoid working with my team in BF2. You really just could avoid your whole team for the entire match and come out in the top 10. It seems a lot more difficult in BF3 to avoid your team as either they can spawn on you and help you or they are always near the objectives helping.

Since you caught that CQ was referencing Close Quarters and not conquest, we can leave that alone.

I have never damaged my vehicle by dropping it 10+ feet in BF3. In BF2, dropping it ~3 feet will damage it. Exaggeration detected. If this were literally the case, i couldn't have ramped all my jeeps/vodniks all over the place, and running into walls would have meant insta-death in BF2. Not that case.

You say, 'limitation', I say... 'gameplay mechanic'. BF2 was more squad centric, and commander and squad leaders are the mechanic to influence that playstyle. Just because you were a lone wolf and appear to enjoy that playstyle doesn't mean the mechanic is bad. It adds depth to combat and tactics. I frequently found myself burrowing in someplace and being point defense/spawn beacon for my squad. Just because you aren't awlays point man, charging in guns blazing, doesn't mean you aren't an asset to the team. Being on a disfunctional squad happens everywhere... because people are shallow and impatient. If you get a bad squad, BF3 or 2, type your concern and ask for those willing to make a squad effort. If your squad keeps scattering, vocalize yourself and be a leader. TELL people what to do, or boot htem to make room for a cooperative teammate. If its in the plan to send a guy off to scatter the enemy, fine, but stick together. The biggest concern in squad games in general, BF2/3... whatever, is people don't communicate except to complain or troll. constructive criticism and guides commands make everything just flow. Find a good clan, friend some random smart pubs... there you go biggrin.gif

If the squad leader is dead, you should have protected him better, he's your CO. What? Military train of thought in a war simulator? MADNESS.... That is when you get a good squad leader and then build a good team on that. Not hard, not limiting gameplay... if it did hinder effective gameplay so much, why are people STILL playing it 7 years later? It just may not be to your liking, but that doesn't make it a bad gameplay mechanic. I was frustrated many a time with a dead CO... he kept failing, Soooo I made a squad and was a GOOD CO. Thankfully, online you can pick your friends and squadmates.
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post #248 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

Actually, that's kind of the problem I had with the sounds in Bad Company 2. They were still really good compared to other games, but they just sounded way too powerful and bass-y, kind of like a movie. Battlefield 3's gun sounds are much more crisp and mechanical. Both have a ways to go before sounding completely realistic, but I think BF3's sounds were more authentic and less artificial. That's just weapon sounds, as well. I just feel Battlefield 3's sounds on a whole were much more natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

BF3's weapon sounds are definitely closer to reality. There is hundreds of videos on youtube comparing BF3 guns to real life guns and they sound extremely similar. Obviously you need to wear ear protection in real life so your goi ng to be missing something but right down to the rate of fire in a lot of cases it is spot on.

Okay, I am a little confused. I thought we are talking about the entertainment elements in a warfare video game. Tactics, realism seems like a totally different discussion.

So, are we talking about immersion and entertainment or are we talking about authenticity and realism? Like I said before, BC2 won me over for the fun factor alone.

If you guys are really after authenticity, go play the Flashpoint, Arma franchises. But, you will probably hate it.
    
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post #249 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

The fact that BF2 had CQ that could be fast paced (thank you, sprint feature) and the IW making CODMW from the inspiration of BF2 but with different style of gameplay. Also, the fastest BF3 CQ match that I have done had 400 tickets and last a little over 20 minutes. And the fastest 1000 ticket match lasted around an hour. So yeah, the time to complete is obviously different from that of BF and COD. Though I will say, all of my BF2&3 matches always seem faster than whenever I play COD.
I have never damaged my vehicle by dropping it 10+ feet in BF3. In BF2, dropping it ~3 feet will damage it.
That limitation also hinders gameplay. Why only the squad leader? I would like a reason for only spawning on the squad leader would be better? What if your squad leader is dead? I rarely spawned on my squad leaders in BF2, they were either too far away from the target or dead.
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is fun. But that's another subject for another day. I found it easier to avoid working with my team in BF2. You really just could avoid your whole team for the entire match and come out in the top 10. It seems a lot more difficult in BF3 to avoid your team as either they can spawn on you and help you or they are always near the objectives helping.

Since you caught that CQ was referencing Close Quarters and not conquest, we can leave that alone.

I have never damaged my vehicle by dropping it 10+ feet in BF3. In BF2, dropping it ~3 feet will damage it. Exaggeration detected. If this were literally the case, i couldn't have ramped all my jeeps/vodniks all over the place, and running into walls would have meant insta-death in BF2. Not that case.

You say, 'limitation', I say... 'gameplay mechanic'. BF2 was more squad centric, and commander and squad leaders are the mechanic to influence that playstyle. Just because you were a lone wolf and appear to enjoy that playstyle doesn't mean the mechanic is bad. It adds depth to combat and tactics. I frequently found myself burrowing in someplace and being point defense/spawn beacon for my squad. Just because you aren't awlays point man, charging in guns blazing, doesn't mean you aren't an asset to the team. Being on a disfunctional squad happens everywhere... because people are shallow and impatient. If you get a bad squad, BF3 or 2, type your concern and ask for those willing to make a squad effort. If your squad keeps scattering, vocalize yourself and be a leader. TELL people what to do, or boot htem to make room for a cooperative teammate. If its in the plan to send a guy off to scatter the enemy, fine, but stick together. The biggest concern in squad games in general, BF2/3... whatever, is people don't communicate except to complain or troll. constructive criticism and guides commands make everything just flow. Find a good clan, friend some random smart pubs... there you go biggrin.gif

If the squad leader is dead, you should have protected him better, he's your CO. What? Military train of thought in a war simulator? MADNESS.... That is when you get a good squad leader and then build a good team on that. Not hard, not limiting gameplay... if it did hinder effective gameplay so much, why are people STILL playing it 7 years later? It just may not be to your liking, but that doesn't make it a bad gameplay mechanic. I was frustrated many a time with a dead CO... he kept failing, Soooo I made a squad and was a GOOD CO. Thankfully, online you can pick your friends and squadmates.

Actually, there is no exaggeration there. You know that one map with the docks? Play as the RU, get in a T90, go straight for the flag near the shipping containers, that's easily a ~15 foot drop, tank does not get damaged what-so-ever. Then there is another map where I played as the RU again, got in a jeep, launched that thin ~12 feet in the air, no damage when it came back down. As for BF2, going down a decent incline (~40 degrees acute) will damage Jeeps and APC's. I believe tanks were damaged as well, slightly.
Also, I love the glitch in BF2 where if you sprint, jump and turn around in mid-air you literally do a U turn.

I have not been in a dis-functional squad in BF3... and I haven't seen any dis-functional squads in BF3 yet...
As for BF2, I have seen a few, not a lot though.

If I want the level of depth that you are wanting, I would wait for ArmA 3 and play that instead.
post #250 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratrooper1n0 View Post

Actually, there is no exaggeration there. You know that one map with the docks? Play as the RU, get in a T90, go straight for the flag near the shipping containers, that's easily a ~15 foot drop, tank does not get damaged what-so-ever. Then there is another map where I played as the RU again, got in a jeep, launched that thin ~12 feet in the air, no damage when it came back down. As for BF2, going down a decent incline (~40 degrees acute) will damage Jeeps and APC's. I believe tanks were damaged as well, slightly.
Also, I love the glitch in BF2 where if you sprint, jump and turn around in mid-air you literally do a U turn.
I have not been in a dis-functional squad in BF3... and I haven't seen any dis-functional squads in BF3 yet...
As for BF2, I have seen a few, not a lot though.
If I want the level of depth that you are wanting, I would wait for ArmA 3 and play that instead.

I'd have to see it to believe it, but frankly... I don't. I played BF2 since release, and beta before that. I played for a VERY long time and don't recall ever experiencing the issues you're claiming are there.

As for the 'u-turn glitch', again, i'd have to see it still being an issue in the current revisions, because I recall that being an engine calculation issue with the way it looked at the forward momentum of the jumping player. It carried the momentum of the turn while mid-jump... thus, u-turn. Attempting to hold that against BF2 just shows you're grasping at straws to try and demean BF2 for some reason.

I again sense exaggeration claiming you haven't seen or been in any disfunctional squads... but then again, you haven't played that much. The chances you've avoided all of the idiots online are zero to none. I think part of this comes down to differing definitions of 'disfunctional'. I have higher stanards for squad interaction than most, and expect more from those claiming to want to play as a squad. My team as a whole... whatever, do what they want. But my SQUAD should act like a squad. How many times I've seen us all running Ammo or Suppression... countless. People simply don't pay attention or update their loadout on the fly. Switching a scope for suppressor, et al... doesn'ot count.

As for the level of depth i'm wanting... I HAD that in good BF2 games. I can probably count on both hands i've had the same experience in BF3 since release. People get careless when they can just pop in where ever and do whatever. No cohesion. And I've played Arma, and some Arma 2. Also Project Reality for BF2 back in the day. Some realism is good, but 'too real' changes everything in a game. You can't really compare ArmA and BF anyways... they go for entirely different aspects of the war experience. I'm happy playing ArmA though, when i have a good group to get on with... so rarely anymore.
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