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[Bloomberg] Google Revenues Sheltered in No-Tax Bermuda Soar to $10 Billion - Page 3

post #21 of 92
I never thought there would be such thing as Google fanboys, but I guess I was wrong. You guys realize that this 'legal' form of tax evasion is just hurting all of us in the end. Taxes pay for every public aspects of our lives, be it mismanaged or what have you, taxes help the people, and by saying you don't want to pay taxes is saying that you are against the good of the people. These issues are not black and white, but fall under the shades of grey. Yes we need tax law reform, Yes the government needs to manage our money better, Yes we still need social services, but by letting people/corporations make our like bandits of loopholes does not solve the problem.
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post #22 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmerrick View Post

I never thought there would be such thing as Google fanboys, but I guess I was wrong. You guys realize that this 'legal' form of tax evasion is just hurting all of us in the end. Taxes pay for every public aspects of our lives, be it mismanaged or what have you, taxes help the people, and by saying you don't want to pay taxes is saying that you are against the good of the people. These issues are not black and white, but fall under the shades of grey. Yes we need tax law reform, Yes the government needs to manage our money better, Yes we still need social services, but by letting people/corporations make our like bandits of loopholes does not solve the problem.

As i've said before there is nothing that can be done about it; Free trade basically means that if you force firms to pay tax -- they will move to different countries. Nothing can be done in a free trade system.

Secondly, firms did not abuse tax loopholes in the 1980s. Perhaps we should study why the tax system worked so much better then. To be more specific, when creating a business there are two considerations: opportunity cost and incentive. Having the highest corporate tax rates in the world is a strong disincentive to business, and this especially hurts small business; I don't agree with our liberal leaders in that we should continually raise tax while spending money wildly on income redistribution programs. That is a normative policy in their view, but it isn't in the interest of a good economy.
Edited by xoleras - 12/11/12 at 7:30am
post #23 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by .:hybrid:. View Post

Hate the game, not the player.

Exactly.

The loopholes exist, and not by accident. Blame the people that allow the loopholes to exist, aka governments, not the company that uses it to save money.

Oh an to the person that said unskilled jobs are being outsourced. The problem is, skilled jobs are also being outsourced now. Thank your "loopholes" again.
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post #24 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoat333 View Post

Exactly.
The loopholes exist, and not by accident. Blame the people that allow the loopholes to exist, aka governments, not the company that uses it to save money.
Oh an to the person that said unskilled jobs are being outsourced. The problem is, skilled jobs are also being outsourced now. Thank your "loopholes" again.

Whoa , back up there. What I said more specifically is that unskilled labor is not in demand, while skilled labor demand has skyrocketed - for instance, a restaurant waiter is in low demand (unskilled) yet the demand for skilled labor has skyrocketed. Computer programmers with degrees can easily find jobs, because they are in high demand; this is why there is such an income disparity/inequality in the US. Nothing can be done about this, it is 100% due to the free trade agreement as set by the clinton administration. Let's also be clear that while high skilled jobs _may_ be outsourced, those jobs are still proliferating in the US because it is far easier to find a computer programmer with credentials in the US than it is in say, india or china. So those technical jobs are still very much in high demand.

So while some skilled labor may be outsourced, it is still high in demand. You can easily find a job in a technical field with the proper credentials due to the high demand; yet it is not easy to find a job as an unskilled laborer.
Edited by xoleras - 12/11/12 at 7:37am
post #25 of 92
ITT: People criticize Google/Apple/Whoever over legally minimizing taxes, while they most likely do the same when they purchase things online and fail to itemize all yearly purchases to pay sales tax.
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post #26 of 92
There are negative aspects for Google about doing this that make it a less than ideal trade off for them. It's not like they're doing off the book accounting with special purpose entities (a gray area(in being both legal and illegal depending on the method) of tax dodging and cooking books any accountant should know about) which would have been the "better" situation if they wanted to avoid taxes and have that cash wherever they needed it.

To anyone thinking taxes are better than free markets in circulating and redistributing funds to the "greater good" you obviously believe people are naturally altruistic and don't have greed, envy, or a self centered nature. Sadly, people have all of those flaws which is why capitalism is the only system that doesn't quickly collapse in on itself without oppressive government intervention. It still can but it requires reaching the point past the "(insert nation name) dream" has come true. After that, complacency and envy will usually derail the whole thing and bring it down.

But the big question is this...will the money be better used in the company that "earned" it so they can continue to (hopefully) make better products/services that people will want which then makes them more money; or will it be better in the hands of a government that is infected with special interest groups that are likely very localized in what they want to do with that money?
     
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post #27 of 92
My wife as part of qualifiying in accounting here in the UK has actually just been studying tax (and its avoidance) and the level it occurs at is astounding.

What is obvious though is here as well as the US is the massive corporate avoidance has increased to avoid rising tax bills, its a viable arguement that were the tax burden to be lessened on the corporations the level of avoidance would also drop. Avioding tax often costs money (though less than the tax itself) and generates bad press as we see here, the arguement is that if corporate taxes were eased to a point where the avoidance and bad press is no longer worth it you may actually generate more tax. Of course to test this arguement you may go broke as now the horse has bolted it may not return.

What I find more incidious is the individuals in the UK that avoid tax (Indeed some come up with schemes so good the tax man ends up paying them). Corporations I can understand they need to post good figures and tax avoidance is a cheap easy way to do this, individuals that fleece tax (and therefore fleece us all) I find far more irritating.

TLDR - Google doing what google doing.... so are many many others
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post #28 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by WR6133 View Post

My wife as part of qualifiying in accounting here in the UK has actually just been studying tax (and its avoidance) and the level it occurs at is astounding.
What is obvious though is here as well as the US is the massive corporate avoidance has increased to avoid rising tax bills, its a viable arguement that were the tax burden to be lessened on the corporations the level of avoidance would also drop. Avioding tax often costs money (though less than the tax itself) and generates bad press as we see here, the arguement is that if corporate taxes were eased to a point where the avoidance and bad press is no longer worth it you may actually generate more tax. Of course to test this arguement you may go broke as now the horse has bolted it may not return.
What I find more incidious is the individuals in the UK that avoid tax (Indeed some come up with schemes so good the tax man ends up paying them). Corporations I can understand they need to post good figures and tax avoidance is a cheap easy way to do this, individuals that fleece tax (and therefore fleece us all) I find far more irritating.
TLDR - Google doing what google doing.... so are many many others

You raise an interesting point here. While raising taxes for corporations and the rich is a rallying cry for liberals, the fact of the matter is that high taxes also discourage market activity and encourages firms to exit the US market. Businesses are in the business of profit maximization, and if the US forces their hand -- free trade will simply let them pack up and move to a different country. The laffer theory is a good case in point: the theory states that in some cases, lower tax rates can increase tax revenue; the point being is that a taxation rate TOO HIGH will encourage many firms to exit the market and/or go elsewhere (offshore). The laffer theory has also been proven in switzerland, who in fact raised tax revenue by lowering tax rates. Their tax rates in years prior neared 80%, lowering it increased tax revenue.
post #29 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

yessir.gif And honestly, if someone offered you a tax deduction wouldn't you take it? Seriously ponder that for a minute. If someone has a 100% free and LEGAL way to avoid paying taxes...why not?

This.
post #30 of 92
Apple fan boys:
When Apple does it: everyone else is doing it, it's the systems fault
When Google does it:omg so evil they're murdering my dog
 
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