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[The Tech Report] Does the Radeon HD 7950 stumble in Windows 8? - Page 36

post #351 of 452
If the latency was so bad why in my graphs nothing 'bad' appears? [H] said that in their personal opinion they felt nvidia smoother.Personal is the right word
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post #352 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghilly View Post

I do wonder though what AMD sacrificed just to gain the performance crown............... that also worries me as to the actual state of AMD's GPU arm which was looking like the saving grace of the company.

If it turns out to be a shortcut taken to pip NV to the fastest card, it really should worry consumers of their products, of which im one (ok its in the missis machine) but i have to troubleshoot the damm thing smile.gif.

Both companies have done this in the past, actually. It says nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wertmur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

I provide some graphs with frame latency in skyrim. I dont see any problem . Especially if you use dynamic framerate cap. Amd dont have any issue about frame latency
liar.
as the owner of amd and nv vcards I say that AMD has problems with smoothless(frame latency) in some games (skyrim, witcher 2, tdu2 etc)

My girlfriend is literally on her Core i5 3570k + HD7850 right now playing Skyrim and it seems to be a hell of a lot less stuttery than what TTR are claiming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wertmur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

At least in skyrim from what i tested no. I dont know what you did in your system but fix it
coz poor frametimes not at all locations.
f.e. whiterun - no stutters and good frametimes.
http://youtu.be/omSfAMPmagg - poor smoothless and bad frametimes

..You do realize TTR's test was outside Whiterun?
Also, why are you running vsync off in Skyrim? It causes all sorts of issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I never said that... I just said that most people haven't thought about testing because of that.

I've never used a 7900 series card though so I don't have personal experience. Only used a 670 from this gen's lineup so how would I have noticed it before I saw a review? The difference in the video however is pretty clear. And I still trust the graphs. We have no reasonable reason to doubt them.

And, whether it's a major issue depends on the user...

There is a 70% difference between average FPS from HardOCP and TTR, TTR is claiming the 660Ti beats the HD7970 at 1440p and that the 7950 gets 69fps with Catalyst 12.11, Techpowerup say 65fps at a slightly higher resolution and Catalyst 12.8 and HardOCP are getting 52.5 at a higher resolution with double the AA on Catalyst 12.8.

Look at 660Ti numbers too, TTR claims 74fps, H says 44.2fps, Techpowerup agrees with them at 45fps for a ~70% difference, nVidia claims newer drivers that TTR run give it 9% extra performance, so where did that other 61% come from? Unless going from 2560x1440 to 2560x1600 makes the 660Ti lose 30fps, TTRs numbers on the 660Ti average FPS are completely wrong and as far as I can tell, pulled out of their rear ends, none of the average FPS numbers add up at all so how do we have any idea that they can get latency right?

There is a good reason to discredit them when they're saying that a 192bit bus with 2GB vRAM is beating a 384bit bus with 3GB vRAM and by doing so, disagreeing with every other major site.
    
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post #353 of 452
Completely different scenes? If TR's test scene is anything like the stuff video showed then I wouldn't be at all surprised that they're getting super high fps.

E: this is their test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z_tfm9tQvrM

It's about as non demanding as you can get out of skyrim.
Edited by Alatar - 12/18/12 at 1:03pm
 
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post #354 of 452
Then why does the HD7950 (An all around faster card that competes with the GTX 670) still have lower FPS? If it's in a GPU weak scene then it should be at the same FPS as the GTX 660Ti due to a CPU bottleneck and not 5fps lower, I know how Skyrim works.

Every other site has the GTX 660TI being well behind the HD7950 at 1440p and above, either their cherry picking areas, they've overclocked the 660Ti (Or have one that can boost to exceptionally high levels) or underclocked the HD7950 if those numbers are real because like I've mentioned, it doesn't fit in with any other review...The 660Ti is the weaker card bar none, latency wise it may be better but I'm certainly not trusting TTR on the matter if they can't even get FPS right, why would you test in an CPU bottlenecked area? It's not like there's no areas in Skyrim that are GPU heavy.
    
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post #355 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Also, why are you running vsync off in Skyrim? It causes all sorts of issues.
i hate vsync;)
Stuttering is observed only when gpu usage 99%. and not everywhere.
Stutters problem on amd cards can be solved by fps cap in msi ab. or vsync.
But it's not for me to play with 30-40fps cap. because 6970 cannot hold stable 50-60 fps.
so I change ati to nv and forget about this problem
post #356 of 452
The 660Ti was boosting to 1111MHz so yes I would say that's pretty high.

But still, with those fps numbers I would consider 5fps to be almost within the margin of error. Especially when the testing isn't done with a built in bench but manually.
 
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post #357 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Both companies have done this in the past, actually. It says nothing.
My girlfriend is literally on her Core i5 3570k + HD7850 right now playing Skyrim and it seems to be a hell of a lot less stuttery than what TTR are claiming.
..You do realize TTR's test was outside Whiterun?
Also, why are you running vsync off in Skyrim? It causes all sorts of issues.
There is a 70% difference between average FPS from HardOCP and TTR, TTR is claiming the 660Ti beats the HD7970 at 1440p and that the 7950 gets 69fps with Catalyst 12.11, Techpowerup say 65fps at a slightly higher resolution and Catalyst 12.8 and HardOCP are getting 52.5 at a higher resolution with double the AA on Catalyst 12.8.
Look at 660Ti numbers too, TTR claims 74fps, H says 44.2fps, Techpowerup agrees with them at 45fps for a ~70% difference, nVidia claims newer drivers that TTR run give it 9% extra performance, so where did that other 61% come from? Unless going from 2560x1440 to 2560x1600 makes the 660Ti lose 30fps, TTRs numbers on the 660Ti average FPS are completely wrong and as far as I can tell, pulled out of their rear ends, none of the average FPS numbers add up at all so how do we have any idea that they can get latency right?
There is a good reason to discredit them when they're saying that a 192bit bus with 2GB vRAM is beating a 384bit bus with 3GB vRAM and by doing so, disagreeing with every other major site.

The reason is simple, and I am surprised that you have not seen it. Techreport doesn't overclock the cards they have the cards they use in their reviews. Don't know why considering most enthusiasts the kind of people buying 300+ graphics cards, would overclock their cards at least a little. That isn't the entire problem here though, the real problem lies in the fact that they are using a 660 ti AMP with a lowest boost setting of 1111mhz, the highest max boost a reference 680 gets is 1110mhz. The 1111mhz is an overclock, and an okay one at that for the 660 ti, then you factor in that 1111mhz is the lowest boost it can have, techreport should have been monitoring max clock speeds, the card never got above 70 so it was probably running at max boost the entire time which could have easily been over 1200mhz on a zotac AMP card, which would have been a pretty good overclock. Then the memory was also overclocked something which would help with higher resolutions like 2560x1440.

They really should have compared it to a 7950 at a higher clock speed like 1100mhz, with a memory overclock. I understand the 7950 they are using is overclocked but by no where near as much proportionately to how well they both overclock if you do it yourself.

In short the test was unfair for a number of things. Not because techreport is bias, but the test still wasn't a fair comparison.

Really it bothers me that sites not just techreport only use the boost reported in gpuz for their reviews. I know that some 670 FTW cards say 1085mhz as their boost clock but actually boost to over 1200mhz. Reviewers should realize this.
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post #358 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Freechmen View Post

The reason is simple, and I am surprised that you have not seen it. Techreport doesn't overclock the cards they have the cards they use in their reviews. Don't know why considering most enthusiasts the kind of people buying 300+ graphics cards, would overclock their cards at least a little. That isn't the entire problem here though, the real problem lies in the fact that they are using a 660 ti AMP with a lowest boost setting of 1111mhz, the highest max boost a reference 680 gets is 1110mhz. The 1111mhz is an overclock, and an okay one at that for the 660 ti, then you factor in that 1111mhz is the lowest boost it can have, techreport should have been monitoring max clock speeds, the card never got above 70 so it was probably running at max boost the entire time which could have easily been over 1200mhz on a zotac AMP card, which would have been a pretty good overclock. Then the memory was also overclocked something which would help with higher resolutions like 2560x1440.
They really should have compared it to a 7950 at a higher clock speed like 1100mhz, with a memory overclock. I understand the 7950 they are using is overclocked but by no where near as much proportionately to how well they both overclock if you do it yourself.
In short the test was unfair for a number of things. Not because techreport is bias, but the test still wasn't a fair comparison.
Really it bothers me that sites not just techreport only use the boost reported in gpuz for their reviews. I know that some 670 FTW cards say 1085mhz as their boost clock but actually boost to over 1200mhz. Reviewers should realize this.

I dont know how many times its been said. Just seems to be ok because its out of the retail box or sth..
post #359 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by wertmur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Also, why are you running vsync off in Skyrim? It causes all sorts of issues.
i hate vsync;)
Stuttering is observed only when gpu usage 99%. and not everywhere.
Stutters problem on amd cards can be solved by fps cap in msi ab. or vsync.
But it's not for me to play with 30-40fps cap. because 6970 cannot hold stable 50-60 fps.
so I change ati to nv and forget about this problem

You're going to get tearing without capping FPS to 60 or so, and how can a HD6970 not do 60fps stable? Stock Skyrim at 1080p and my GTX 470 can do 40-50fps stable, a HD6970 is a bit faster than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The 660Ti was boosting to 1111MHz so yes I would say that's pretty high.

But still, with those fps numbers I would consider 5fps to be almost within the margin of error. Especially when the testing isn't done with a built in bench but manually.

Not when it's in an area like that, with very little in the way of NPCs..I'd say 2-3fps is the margin of error IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Freechmen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Both companies have done this in the past, actually. It says nothing.
My girlfriend is literally on her Core i5 3570k + HD7850 right now playing Skyrim and it seems to be a hell of a lot less stuttery than what TTR are claiming.
..You do realize TTR's test was outside Whiterun?
Also, why are you running vsync off in Skyrim? It causes all sorts of issues.
There is a 70% difference between average FPS from HardOCP and TTR, TTR is claiming the 660Ti beats the HD7970 at 1440p and that the 7950 gets 69fps with Catalyst 12.11, Techpowerup say 65fps at a slightly higher resolution and Catalyst 12.8 and HardOCP are getting 52.5 at a higher resolution with double the AA on Catalyst 12.8.
Look at 660Ti numbers too, TTR claims 74fps, H says 44.2fps, Techpowerup agrees with them at 45fps for a ~70% difference, nVidia claims newer drivers that TTR run give it 9% extra performance, so where did that other 61% come from? Unless going from 2560x1440 to 2560x1600 makes the 660Ti lose 30fps, TTRs numbers on the 660Ti average FPS are completely wrong and as far as I can tell, pulled out of their rear ends, none of the average FPS numbers add up at all so how do we have any idea that they can get latency right?
There is a good reason to discredit them when they're saying that a 192bit bus with 2GB vRAM is beating a 384bit bus with 3GB vRAM and by doing so, disagreeing with every other major site.

The reason is simple, and I am surprised that you have not seen it. Techreport doesn't overclock the cards they have the cards they use in their reviews. Don't know why considering most enthusiasts the kind of people buying 300+ graphics cards, would overclock their cards at least a little. That isn't the entire problem here though, the real problem lies in the fact that they are using a 660 ti AMP with a lowest boost setting of 1111mhz, the highest max boost a reference 680 gets is 1110mhz. The 1111mhz is an overclock, and an okay one at that for the 660 ti, then you factor in that 1111mhz is the lowest boost it can have, techreport should have been monitoring max clock speeds, the card never got above 70 so it was probably running at max boost the entire time which could have easily been over 1200mhz on a zotac AMP card, which would have been a pretty good overclock. Then the memory was also overclocked something which would help with higher resolutions like 2560x1440.

They really should have compared it to a 7950 at a higher clock speed like 1100mhz, with a memory overclock. I understand the 7950 they are using is overclocked but by no where near as much proportionately to how well they both overclock if you do it yourself.

In short the test was unfair for a number of things. Not because techreport is bias, but the test still wasn't a fair comparison.

Really it bothers me that sites not just techreport only use the boost reported in gpuz for their reviews. I know that some 670 FTW cards say 1085mhz as their boost clock but actually boost to over 1200mhz. Reviewers should realize this.

That's my point though, when you look at the basic numbers it just doesn't add up..and it proves it, they're effectively saying that a overclocked GTX 660Ti is faster than a stock HD7950 Boost. Yawn, now OC the HD7950 and lets watch it beat it.
    
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post #360 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

That's my point though, when you look at the basic numbers it just doesn't add up..and it proves it, they're effectively saying that a overclocked GTX 660Ti is faster than a stock HD7950 Boost. Yawn, now OC the HD7950 and lets watch it beat it.

Wait, so basic numbers don't add up regardless of the very different test scene and a high OC on the 660Ti which basically explain the FPS numbers? And that is a good reason to ignore their frame time results? I'm not getting your logic.
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i7-4820K (4500MHz@1.28V) P9X79 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X New Edition Team Group Vulcan 4x4GB 2133MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
2x240GB SSD @RAID 0 Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 Pro Corsair AX750 
CaseAudio
Rosewill Armor EVO hiFace+AudioGD+DT770Pro 
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The Air Tunnel
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4820K (4500MHz@1.28V) P9X79 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X New Edition Team Group Vulcan 4x4GB 2133MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
2x240GB SSD @RAID 0 Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Windows 10 Pro Corsair AX750 
CaseAudio
Rosewill Armor EVO hiFace+AudioGD+DT770Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [The Tech Report] Does the Radeon HD 7950 stumble in Windows 8?