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AMD 1090T Overclocking - thoughts on this elusive and complex subject! Open to debate of course!

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I think I have read almost every post on the internet now regarding overclocking the AMD 1090T and also every post about the M4N98TD Evo. LOL

Anyway my current thinking and from what I have read is this, to get a stable 3000Mhz CPU/NB or memory controller then you would need essentially to be running your RAM at 2000Mhz (1000Mhz x 2 = DDR 2000mhz, 1000Mhz x 3 = 3000mhz NB) This goes along with the theory that you require 3 x the single data rate to ascertain your target NB +/- 200mhz.

The CPU/NB voltage is a curious thing as I have read that the AMD X6 processors need less volts on this and in fact cannot handle higher voltages due to lower capacitance, therefore if it is capped at 1.25V then is achieving the 3000Mhz going to be possible at all?

I know a lot of people will have moved on by now to bulldozer and the 990fx chipset or done probably the right thing and moved over to INTEL(still not convinced on that one!) but there still seems to be a real lack of information regarding the phenom II X6 chips and their overclocking, even on the guide written by Dolk there is not that much new information over and above phenom II earlier releases, but from everything I read, the X6 does indeed seem to be a different beast??

Given that 3 x 800 or (1600 DDR) is only 2400 then surely that would be the ideal setting for the CPU/NB for that frequency of ram. I was constantly told with the X4 (by RAM manufacturers when trying to get to 1066mhz DDR2) that it had a **** memory controller, maybe the X6 is the same??

I think therefore unless 2000mhz ram can be achieved then any higher than max 2800 on the CPU/NB is silly??

I read that (from Dolk) that in order to achieve the high CPU clocks above 4Ghz that a high cpu/nb is required to avoid bottle necks, so i think that along with that, a high ram frequency is also called for.

I have still very much been trying to push for more from my 1090T but I think essentially I got a chip that gives core failures any higher than 3.96Ghz despite both my temperatures being in limit and the fact that I am applying much voltage around 1.6V BIOS or 1.5V under load. I have also read that lower voltages and higher multis may yield results, something that I haven't tried as yet.

So with this thinking in mind, I am wondering if my previous attempts with my RAM at 1760Mhz were yielding the higher cpu/nb precisely because the RAM could cope with that high a frequency, some playing around with CAS is also required to find sweet spots for the RAM through put. Even at 1760Mhz the CPU/NB would only need 2640Mhz and if I understand Dolk right then, ths would not be high enough to warrant the processor being higher??

I would love some conclusive settings on this board for a stable 1090T overclock that is above 4Ghz with 2 x 4GB of RAM installed, because of all the variables of RAM and chips and settings, it seems impossible for anyone to guide anyone else really!!

As I have mentioned before, the CPU.NB in BIOS would set itself to 1.35v for 2600mhz and 1.45v for 2800mhz or above but AIDA 64 was still reporting a VID of only 1.15v so maybe the X6 is fine up to 2600 on only 1.15v but requires higher volts for above, as I would only get crashes in games at higher that 2600mhz on the CPU/NB, I was thinking that this was because it was getting too much voltage, but I now think that maybe with the VID staying at 1.15V in AIDA 64 that maybe it wasn't getting enough instead???

Interesting anyway.

Am using phenom msr tweaker exclusively to test overclocks now, leaving the BIOS options on auto, as it allows for custom settings to overwrite the chip's cool and quiet and still allows it to operate.

My current thinking then is to try and push my RAM way up high (as high as it will stay stable) keep my CPU/NB at 2600 at 1.15V or 1.1875V and see if I can get a higher CPU clock that way, also I may try pushing the CPU/NB up to 3000Mhz at only 1.25V ( I heard this is a good max for the X6) and trying to get a higher CPU clock, but bearing in mind what I said about the 3 X rule, then this would require RAM capable of running 2000MHZ DDR I feel.

I know that Dolk feels that 3000Mhz or higher on the CPU/NB is required for post 4Ghz CPU clocks, all chips are different of course, but I still don't want to believe that it is this board or my CPU that is crapping me out at 3.96Ghz!!

Long post I know but had much thinking to relay!

Best wishes to anyone still pondering AMD X6 phenoms or still using this board!!

I am so tempted to replace the board but would require fresh windows install as the drivers would all be totally different and I would lose software that I no longer have the discs for!!

So I persevere, I have to say that this board has taken very much playing about with and shows no signs of flaking with all the abuse, as you would expect of a top end ASUS Nvidia board!!
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 
it seems to me then that the CPU/NB is fully saturated with 1600Mhz memory at only 2400 and that 2600 is the limit because of the plus or minus 200mhz rule.

So at 1800mhz RAM then maybe 3000Mhz CPU/NB would be possible but this would also require around 4.2 - 4.3 Ghz on the CPU I feel. Even at 900Mhz single data rate this only equates to a 2900Mhz (2700Mhz +/- 200Mhz) CPU/NB max but this may be enough to break chips through the 4Ghz barrier!!

So my next experiment will be 1760 (880Mhz) RAM with 2840Mhz CPU/NB set to 1.2125V or upto 1.25V with a CPU clock pushing through the 4Ghz barrier, maybe you see its not voltage that is required for these higher clocks but the balance to be achieved! Seen as people are reporting breaking through 4Ghz with only 1.456V Vcore (post droop)

Bit more explanation of my thinking here I hope, at these higher CPU/NB settings then I would say that raising the HT link up will also help stability, to a maximum of 2600Mhz but I feel that as long as it is within 2 dividers of the CPU/NB then you should be ok.

At 2840Mhz then, the HT may have to go up to 2400Mhz, As Dolk says, the extra mhz have to go somewhere, and also need extra mhz to feed the higher speed.

Thinking of the memory, processor and the HT link as a basic system, the memory becomes the input, the processor, the process (obviously) and the HT link as the output! 2000Mhz doubled is 4Ghz and with the HT link at 2000Mhz, it gets doubled to provide its through put, therefore 4Ghz on the processor fully utilises this HT link, any higher than 4ghz processor would need the extra HT link I feel in order to output its data!!

2200 HT link may therefore be good up to 4.4ghz processing???

These are all just my thought sin trying to understand this complex system!!

Best wishes
post #3 of 11
Too many words! At least throw a chart or picture in there to keep my attention.
post #4 of 11
 
Thuban Powah!
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Thuban Powah!
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post #5 of 11
wow, i got into this and the sheer number of continuous letters made my head spin, but heres my honest opinion of this, your using too much math... stop hurting your head, just follow the steps to overclocking,
1) bump your voltage to a range that fits into your comfortability range, both voltage and thermal wise,
*) stab test and check thermals
2 ) decide wether or not to adjust your spread spectrums on or off, this may affect stability and you can always come back to it,
*) stab test and check thermals
3 ) bump your fsb too the highest you can posibly get it, keeping track of voltage and load temps,
*) stab test and check thermals
4 ) adjust ram voltage to your comfort
*) stab test and check thermals
5 ) adjust ram speed to highest stable frequency under your new fsb speed
*) stab test and check thermals
6 ) adjust ram timings to lowest posible, and try to get 1t if you can maintain stability
*) stab test and check thermals
7 ) up cpu multiplyer to highest stable
*) stab test and check thermals

enjoy your pc
post #6 of 11
im running 2Ghz ram, 3Ghz nb, 4Ghz core 2ghz ht

full llc, 1,45 volts vcore 1.5 and above for 4.2 on my chip

around 1.2 nb or a bit more possibly 1.3 depends

cpuvdda 2.8

250x16 or possibly 300 x 13.5

really easy

old image but here you go, hope you can see something from it
http://www.overclock.net/g/i/787785/sort/display_order/
Edited by EkseF - 12/12/12 at 10:51pm
i7 skylake
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i7 skylake
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post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
I wish my board had LLC but it only has NVIDIA ACC which seems inferior in stabilising the overclocks.

I think overclocking is a complicated business myself, I have had so many false hits with INTEL burn test and OCCT both confirming stability and then massive crashes while playing games, its complicated cause its impossible to know exactly what is faulting when the system becomes unstable, could be drivers, could be RAM timings, could be CPU/NB or could be processor, could also be some random voltage setting that needs a bump!

I really wish it was easy! Its not on this board at all, mainly due to the BIOS not setting voltages as it should, well reported to ASUS but they refuse to update the BIOS.

As I have said I want 100% Stability in order to dual boot but I also want the extra benefit of the Overclock. 100% stable is surely not too much to ask for is it??

Have had further issues with the system today while playing games with a load of code not loaded into the memory, spat a load of warnings out, am guessing RAM is at fault, but its not even being pushed, these RAM are listed guaranteed compatible by Crucial but they are set up for INTEL, getting info for settings on AMD is nearly impossible!
post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmuckley View Post

TL:DR Wall of text.Here's what you need to know: http://www.overclock.net/t/777378/official-gappos-little-deneb-thuban-overclocking-guide-with-too-many-smileys/0_100

Sir this is your help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad8459 View Post

I wish my board had LLC but it only has NVIDIA ACC which seems inferior in stabilising the overclocks.

I think overclocking is a complicated business myself, I have had so many false hits with INTEL burn test and OCCT both confirming stability and then massive crashes while playing games, its complicated cause its impossible to know exactly what is faulting when the system becomes unstable, could be drivers, could be RAM timings, could be CPU/NB or could be processor, could also be some random voltage setting that needs a bump!

I really wish it was easy! Its not on this board at all, mainly due to the BIOS not setting voltages as it should, well reported to ASUS but they refuse to update the BIOS.

As I have said I want 100% Stability in order to dual boot but I also want the extra benefit of the Overclock. 100% stable is surely not too much to ask for is it??

Have had further issues with the system today while playing games with a load of code not loaded into the memory, spat a load of warnings out, am guessing RAM is at fault, but its not even being pushed, these RAM are listed guaranteed compatible by Crucial but they are set up for INTEL, getting info for settings on AMD is nearly impossible!

You aren't overclocking correctly (which is methodically & slowly). Look at that guide! It helped me get a handle on overclocking really well.

*had a 955 on a m4a77td to a 970a-ud3 212+ to d14 @ 4.2ghz NB @ 2700 etc.
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Yesz
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
I will agree with the methodical part, but I have done it slowly too, been trying to get good stable settings for over 6 months! I guess pushing for 4Ghz is my real issue, but its hard to know exactly where the errors creep in, testing to find maximums is good but then putting them all together creates another issue, and then its hard to know which is the faulting aspect once more, I have so many results that are prime 95, intel burn test on maximum, OCCT, Wprime, hyper pi, stable all to fault within games, so do I therefore assume that the actual issue is a crap driver for my Nvidia card??

There are so many variables within a PC it is unreal!

I can run in windows, browse, multi task, do allsorts for days on end with decent clocks, fire up a game and crash bang wallop!

It doesnt help also not knowing what safe timings I can use for my RAM, hyper pi will tell me I am stable all the way up to 1850Mhz at cas 8 on these dimms but fire up a game and here comes the crash again!!

Thanks for your inputs, its just starting to infuriate me a little now, as I have read so much and followed every methodical guide to find the max clocks for things but when trying to run them altogether, although test and benchmark stable, games will crash and its then hard to know whether something just needs more voltage or reducing slightly or again if its just a rubbish Nvidia driver!!
post #10 of 11
what kind of powersupply you got there? I don't see it in your signature. If your computer is stable in a prime 95 stress test (or whatever stress test only for cpu) then that is not the cause of your crashing most likely.
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