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Sandy Bridge vs Nehalem vs Bulldozer vs Piledriver {BENCHMARKS!!!} - Page 11

post #101 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComputerRestore View Post

If this was true, I wonder why even Intel doesn't use 800Mhz Processors anymore. Or why the frequency continues to increase on processors. Why not just keep improving on Instructions per clock? Give the CPU's a huge cache, fill it full of instructions and it will be so fast.
Here's what AMD should have went with. -> FX 0538 0.8Ghz 4GB Cache 35w Single Core
Not saying everyone should buy AMD, but I'm suprised so many "entusiasts" are unable to appreciate what they are attempting. In the evolution of the CPU, it's been about IPC as well as increasing frequency. One of those methods was to increase the pipleline length and depth, to greatly increase frequency. AMD is basically testing the limits on how much that can be pushed.
Very impressive IMO, but risky.

What?
Clock speed has reached a Point where its become hard to scale up, Core performance has always been Clock Speed x IPC. Increasing Clock speed is kinda hard to do, Probably why AMD had to lower IPC to achieve it. So if you can't really improve clock speed, you ether need improved IPC or more cores. Sadly AMD went with the more cores method. While works great for some things, things like gaming does not. I'm a Fan of what AMD is doing with HSA, but Bulldozer was a step in the wrong direction. Also tossing in a unneeded amount of cache isnt really going to help, I would rather have them fix the cache latency problems before adding more.

AMD did to bulldozer what Intel did with the P4, lengthen the pipeline. It didn't work out to well for intel considering Netburst is the worst CPU Architecture Intel ever created. Also the same reason why a 2ghz Athlon 64 would walk all over a HT P4 3ghz chip, even with the P4 having a entire extra ghz to work with and two threads. Sure Intels were faster at some things like Video encoding that actually took advantage of HT, but a lot of video games would be 10-20+fps faster on the Athlon.


We have been in the 4ghz range for a vary vary long time. Even Pentium 4's were able to overclock into the 4ghz range, My q9550 runs at 4ghz , and my i7 @ 4.2. Now Max clocks are starting to get into the 5ghz range, but its been nearly 10 years in the 4ghz range.
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post #102 of 165
I have to admit that my Asus P6T7WS with an i7 960 was far cheaper than a current i7 system, and it has four x16 PCI-E slots for BOINC use, X79 and an i7 would be vastly more expensive, for little ( current ) gain, I admit AVX and PCI-E 3.0 will become more important in the near future.

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post #103 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

What?
Clock speed has reached a Point where its become hard to scale up, Core performance has always been Clock Speed x IPC. Increasing Clock speed is kinda hard to do, Probably why AMD had to lower IPC to achieve it. So if you can't really improve clock speed, you ether need improved IPC or more cores. Sadly AMD went with the more cores method. While works great for some things, things like gaming does not. I'm a Fan of what AMD is doing with HSA, but Bulldozer was a step in the wrong direction. Also tossing in a unneeded amount of cache isnt really going to help, I would rather have them fix the cache latency problems before adding more.
AMD did to bulldozer what Intel did with the P4, lengthen the pipeline. It didn't work out to well for intel considering Netburst is the worst CPU Architecture Intel ever created. Also the same reason why a 2ghz Athlon 64 would walk all over a HT P4 3ghz chip, even with the P4 having a entire extra ghz to work with and two threads. Sure Intels were faster at some things like Video encoding that actually took advantage of HT, but a lot of video games would be 10-20+fps faster on the Athlon.
We have been in the 4ghz range for a vary vary long time. Even Pentium 4's were able to overclock into the 4ghz range, My q9550 runs at 4ghz , and my i7 @ 4.2. Now Max clocks are starting to get into the 5ghz range, but its been nearly 10 years in the 4ghz range.

Then you would be on a wild goose chase. PD already proved the cache latency was not the issue. IMO BD was a step in the right direction and the direction we need to move in order to evolve. The days of single threaded majority and moar ipc are coming to an end.
Edited by computerparts - 12/20/12 at 2:06pm
post #104 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

Then you would be on a wild goose chase. PD already proved the cache latency was not the issue.

They Hardly fixed it

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-vishera-review,3328-7.html

Still worse the Phenom II
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post #105 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

They Hardly fixed it
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-vishera-review,3328-7.html
Still worse the Phenom II

Quote:
It doesn’t appear that Vishera’s cache latencies—often thought to be one of Zambezi’s performance issues—are any different. AMD's architects confirm the L3 isn't changed. The L2's minimum latency isn't any different, either.

You just proved my point. PD's cache latency isn't any better but it performs better than BD.
post #106 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

You just proved my point. PD's cache latency isn't any better but it performs better than BD.

Yeah they fixed some things but Can't say the Cache Latency isnt a problem. We would probably see a decent boost at certain tasks with better cache latency, Gaming for one. Still I would rather have the cache problems fixed other then more of it. Piledriver is a step in the right direction, but still needs some work. Cache wasnt the only problem with Bulldozer. Though I personally Like the FX6300, for the price its kinda hard for Intel to beat. Problem with AMD is they are releasing their chips to late. Piledirver should have been Bulldozer, just like Phenom II should have been Phenom. I'm hoping the extra delay for Steamroller adds some HSA features, improved IPC, some latency fixes, and more front-end improvements. Though Really they should Ditch AM3+ socket and toss the NB and PCI-E directly onto the CPU itself like intel does. AM3+ is holding back the platform as well. If AMD can pull it off a mature Bulldozer architecture may do some good, but with Haswell on the way soon AMD needs to step up their game.

I think we may get a piledriver+ chip in 2013, which should be the last AM3+ CPU IMO.
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post #107 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Yeah they fixed some things but Can't say the Cache Latency isnt a problem. We would probably see a decent boost at certain tasks with better cache latency, Gaming for one. Still I would rather have the cache problems fixed other then more of it. Piledriver is a step in the right direction, but still needs some work. Cache wasnt the only problem with Bulldozer. Though I personally Like the FX6300, for the price its kinda hard for Intel to beat. Problem with AMD is they are releasing their chips to late. Piledirver should have been Bulldozer, just like Phenom II should have been Phenom. I'm hoping the extra delay for Steamroller adds some HSA features, improved IPC, some latency fixes, and more front-end improvements. Though Really they should Ditch AM3+ socket and toss the NB and PCI-E directly onto the CPU itself like intel does. AM3+ is holding back the platform as well. If AMD can pull it off a mature Bulldozer architecture may do some good, but with Haswell on the way soon AMD needs to step up their game.
I think we may get a piledriver+ chip in 2013, which should be the last AM3+ CPU IMO.

It's a brand new architecture so we can only assume reducing cache latency would help but we don't know for sure. I agree BD wasn't the greatest but IMO there were some people out there that were expecting too much. Given their budget for R&D it can't really be helped that they release late. I'm not sure about the socket but I do think the chipset is holding back the platform. Might it be possible to keep the AM3+ socket and introduce those features? There is no doubt it will take years to optimize the architecture. I thought Haswell is mostly going to be just igp improvments? Then there's that business about no desktop chips from Intel in 2014. I can't really see Intel bringing anything big that will render even SB to be obsolete any time soon.
post #108 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Yeah they fixed some things but Can't say the Cache Latency isnt a problem. We would probably see a decent boost at certain tasks with better cache latency, Gaming for one. Still I would rather have the cache problems fixed other then more of it. Piledriver is a step in the right direction, but still needs some work. Cache wasnt the only problem with Bulldozer. Though I personally Like the FX6300, for the price its kinda hard for Intel to beat. Problem with AMD is they are releasing their chips to late. Piledirver should have been Bulldozer, just like Phenom II should have been Phenom. I'm hoping the extra delay for Steamroller adds some HSA features, improved IPC, some latency fixes, and more front-end improvements. Though Really they should Ditch AM3+ socket and toss the NB and PCI-E directly onto the CPU itself like intel does. AM3+ is holding back the platform as well. If AMD can pull it off a mature Bulldozer architecture may do some good, but with Haswell on the way soon AMD needs to step up their game.
I think we may get a piledriver+ chip in 2013, which should be the last AM3+ CPU IMO.

I agree with you 100% on this.

AM3 is pretty well useless for the AM3+ CPU's. I've used a Crosshair IV Formula, and Crosshair IV Extreme, which with a BIOS update were suppose to support AM3+. All I can say is, yes it did POST. -> But there was no comparison to how much better it ran on an AM3+ Board.
In my region, AM3 CPU's have been getting phased out since Bulldozer, so there wasn't much need for the backwards compatibility to AM3. Should have built a whole new platform, indeed.
post #109 of 165
To the OP -

That's some really great work you've done here, and I do appreciate what you've done. However I think that your choices of CPU may not be the greatest as you're comparing quad core Intels with hyperthreading to 3 module AMDs. For some of the older games it certainly won't make a difference, but on many newer games and on productivity software there would be a large increase in performance. If at all possible I'd suggest adding the 8xxx to the benchmarks.

Additionally, you could stop a lot of whining from other forumers if you'd run the games at 1080p. It won't make a huge difference in CPU performance, but most people don't actually know this.

Regardless, this is amazing that you've taken the time to put this together. +rep thumb.gif
Edited by Shimme - 12/20/12 at 7:38pm
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post #110 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimme View Post

To the OP -
That's some really great work you've done here, and I do appreciate what you've done. However I think that your choices of CPU may not be the greatest as you're comparing quad core Intels with hyperthreading to 3 module AMDs. For some of the older games it certainly won't make a difference, but on many newer games and on productivity software there would be a large increase in performance. If at all possible I'd suggest adding the 8xxx to the benchmarks.
Additionally, you could stop a lot of whining from other forumers if you'd run the games at 1080p. It won't make a huge difference in CPU performance, but most people don't actually know this.
Regardless, this is amazing that you've taken the time to put this together. +rep thumb.gif

Interesting.....If he ran the games at 1920x1080 instead of at 1920x1200 then there would be no whining? thumb.gif
Edited by ComputerRestore - 12/20/12 at 7:33pm
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