Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Sound Cards and Computer Audio › [Official] Creative Sound Blaster Z, Zx & ZxR Series Club
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] Creative Sound Blaster Z, Zx & ZxR Series Club - Page 346

post #3451 of 5587
Yeah, although better than the X-Fi drivers, they still don't tell the customer anything really. Although, they do include a more detailed manual in the driver packages as a pdf file. For a company that always tries to push computer audio, they basically shut up once a new product is launched and let the users figure things out.

Like does anyone know what HRTF technology the SBX surround setting uses? What exactly is the difference between 25% and 75% in terms of sound direction and distance, etc. I know there is a lot of user tests, but it would be nice to have a more detailed explanation.

We need a lot of setup examples from Creative. It's like all their tech is designed in Asia, and they "splurge" on a translator once every few years.

Keep in mind, I believe Creative bought a large stake in DTS; so a lot of their technology might have bled over into Sound Blaster cards. The Core3D chip isn't a dedicated DSP, I believe; I think it's just a processor that can run quite different algorithms if given the right drivers.
Edited by umeng2002 - 5/14/15 at 3:05pm
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3452 of 5587
So I did a lot of research on Crystalizer over the week, and I finally found out what it is exactly.

Crystalizer does NOT restore lost bits to audio. It won't make say a 96kbit mp3 a 160kbit mp3.

What Crystalizer is in reality is a dynamic decompressor.

What a compressor is in the audio world is when you do recordings in movies etc, you are often filming lots of different audio cue's. Sound technicians use a tool called a compressor that makes certain sounds quieter, and other sounds louder. These machines normally run in the 2-10 million dollar bracket.

Crystalizer on the other hand is a decompressor, it makes sounds that are barely audible and garbled louder, and shrill spikes etc quieter.

This works great till about 112kbit mp3, after which having it on for anything higher causes the low and high ends to be greatly distorted, but a lot of people like how it sounds because its brought up sounds they couldn't hear, and brought down the ones that are too loud. If you're listening to quality sound files there is no reason to have it on other than increasing bass/treble indirectly.

With games however, crystalizer is both good and bad. Good as it raises the pitch of sounds you could barely hear before, say an enemy's footsteps, and lowers loud overpowering sounds that cover up the soft audio cues.

How its bad however is that sounds are modulated, the crystalizer only knows it has to raise/lower sounds if they exceed a threshold. So if you have say one person firing from 10ft away, and another at 30ft away, and if both are firing at the same time, crystalizer will attempt to make them both sound like they are 20ft away from you in volume.

Personally I've turned it off after learning all of this, as while I like the treble/bass boost effect I can get the same tuning easily out of my equalizer.

And yes, the higher your speaker setting the stronger the crystalizer effect is, as it has more space to play with between 48Khz and 96Khz to equalize the audio pitch. But since I've turned crystalizer off, I've gone back to 48Khz as no major media goes higher than it anyways.
post #3453 of 5587
Question for you Z owners, not sure if any of you would know. I currently have a Recon3D and want to use optical out to a Modi 2, then to a Magni 2, to my DT 990s.

Is there any advantage to upgrading to a sound blaster Z from my Recon3D if I am just using it to pass optical to my external dac? I know the Z card has the better dac, but I won't be using it. Want to see if it's worth the $99.

Thanks
Daily Driver
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-6700K GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti Hybrid G.SKILL Trident-Z 16GB DDR4 3400 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 960 EVO 512GB Corsair H110i GTX - CPU EVGA Hybrid 980Ti Kit WIndows 10 Pro x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer x34 21:9 100Hz GSync Corsair K70 w/ Blue Switches Corsair HX750 Corsair Graphite 760T 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G Pro Corsair MM300 Extended Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250OHM Schiit Modi 2 
Audio
Schiit Magni 2 
  hide details  
Reply
Daily Driver
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-6700K GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti Hybrid G.SKILL Trident-Z 16GB DDR4 3400 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 960 EVO 512GB Corsair H110i GTX - CPU EVGA Hybrid 980Ti Kit WIndows 10 Pro x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer x34 21:9 100Hz GSync Corsair K70 w/ Blue Switches Corsair HX750 Corsair Graphite 760T 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G Pro Corsair MM300 Extended Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250OHM Schiit Modi 2 
Audio
Schiit Magni 2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3454 of 5587
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsfrazier View Post

Question for you Z owners, not sure if any of you would know. I currently have a Recon3D and want to use optical out to a Modi 2, then to a Magni 2, to my DT 990s.

Is there any advantage to upgrading to a sound blaster Z from my Recon3D if I am just using it to pass optical to my external dac? I know the Z card has the better dac, but I won't be using it. Want to see if it's worth the $99.

Thanks
If you are only using optical then forget about the upgrade. Digital is digital, analog is analog.

And I think the recon3d should also have the same feature as SBZ where you can add the SBX surround to the optical output that is going to your external DAC.
EDIT: Confirmed. Basically that is the absolute best setup when it comes to headphone gaming.
Edited by Tiihokatti - 5/20/15 at 12:35am
Silent Hawk
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3570K @4,2GHz delidded Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Asus Geforce GTX 1070 Dual OC 2x Corsair Vengeance 4gb 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Kingston Hyperx 120gb SSD Western Digital Caviar Blue 1Tb Random LG DVD/RW ID-Cooling SE-214X 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
3x AC F12 1x Glide Stream Windows 10 Finlux 40" UHD TV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Speedlink Ultor Super Flower Golden Green Pro 750W Rosewill Blackhawk Logitech G502 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Hifiman HE-400 Objective2 Amplifier OR-210Hi speakers Chinese mini speaker-amplifier 
Other
Xilence Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
Silent Hawk
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3570K @4,2GHz delidded Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Asus Geforce GTX 1070 Dual OC 2x Corsair Vengeance 4gb 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Kingston Hyperx 120gb SSD Western Digital Caviar Blue 1Tb Random LG DVD/RW ID-Cooling SE-214X 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
3x AC F12 1x Glide Stream Windows 10 Finlux 40" UHD TV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Speedlink Ultor Super Flower Golden Green Pro 750W Rosewill Blackhawk Logitech G502 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Hifiman HE-400 Objective2 Amplifier OR-210Hi speakers Chinese mini speaker-amplifier 
Other
Xilence Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3455 of 5587
I can't decide if I should buy a sound card for my upcoming rig.

I used to be a Zx owner before with a 990T Headphone.

I currenyly have a Skullcandy PLYR1 headset which I use for PS4 and will use for PC as well, so I really can't decided if I need the soundcard.

That being said I did buy myself a Bose Sound Companion II v3 speakers and maybe the sound will be better with the soundcard?
post #3456 of 5587
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post


Like does anyone know what HRTF technology the SBX surround setting uses? What exactly is the difference between 25% and 75% in terms of sound direction and distance, etc. I know there is a lot of user tests, but it would be nice to have a more detailed explanation.

W The Core3D chip isn't a dedicated DSP, I believe; I think it's just a processor that can run quite different algorithms if given the right drivers.

The Sound Core 3D chip is indeed a dedicated DSP. Unlike ASUS sound cards which do their processing in software, the Sound Core 3D chip does hardware accelerate voice, game, and movie sounds when the SBX Pro Studio is activated. http://www.creative.com/oem/pressreleases/soundcore3d_053111/

In terms of 25% and 75%, imagine a 1/4 circle of sound directionality in front of you. You get a very small stereo image of where sounds originate. Expand that portion of a circle to three quarters width and the sound field is processed to bend or surround you while not quite reaching directly behind you.

I have quite a bit of experience with the Q&A behind the Recon3D and SBZ series of sound cards as I reviewed both for HardOCP.com. Creative's product marketing manager, Ryan Schlieper, and I spoke at great length about what the cards were capable of. The flaws in the Recon3D series revealed themselves in the card's output stage. It was terrible and only slightly better than basic onboard sound. The SBZ series corrected that with high quality components equal or better than the Titanium HD and to an extent, ASUS' Essence series of sound cards.
post #3457 of 5587
yesterday i've swap my old X-Fi Titanium Champion PCI-E with a new Sound Blaster Zx...

i'm disappointed.

i have a TEUFEL 5.1 system (Concept E Magnum PE), and with the X-Fi my music sound A LOT better than with Zx.
With X-Fi i always enabled the CMSS 3D upmix with "surround stereo" setting, and the Front L/R and Back L/R speakers sound the same, like the stereo sound was simply "expanded" to all the speakers of the 5.1 system.

with the Zx and the SBX surround option, the sound is not equal for all the speakers... if i put the slider to 100%, the central speaker have much more sound than the front L/R....
the sound from the front speakers are WRONG. it's like the music is distorted from the sound card....
if the slider is set to 50%-60%, then the front L/R and the central speakers are much more balanced, and the sound seems to be more accurate, but i can barely hear the Back L/R speaker, now it's them that have a wrong sound mad.gif

the old CMSS 3D was simply reproducing a stereo sound from Front and Back speakers (and also centre)....

Is it possible to have the same effect with the Zx???

actually, i'm really missing my old X-Fi card now....

thanks in advance...
Edited by Goofy Goober - 5/21/15 at 12:13am
post #3458 of 5587
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkbluffgrown View Post

The Sound Core 3D chip is indeed a dedicated DSP. Unlike ASUS sound cards which do their processing in software, the Sound Core 3D chip does hardware accelerate voice, game, and movie sounds when the SBX Pro Studio is activated. http://www.creative.com/oem/pressreleases/soundcore3d_053111/

In terms of 25% and 75%, imagine a 1/4 circle of sound directionality in front of you. You get a very small stereo image of where sounds originate. Expand that portion of a circle to three quarters width and the sound field is processed to bend or surround you while not quite reaching directly behind you.

I have quite a bit of experience with the Q&A behind the Recon3D and SBZ series of sound cards as I reviewed both for HardOCP.com. Creative's product marketing manager, Ryan Schlieper, and I spoke at great length about what the cards were capable of. The flaws in the Recon3D series revealed themselves in the card's output stage. It was terrible and only slightly better than basic onboard sound. The SBZ series corrected that with high quality components equal or better than the Titanium HD and to an extent, ASUS' Essence series of sound cards.

Thanks for explaining that, but I wish they released "white papers" on explaining almost exactly what everything does.. After trial and error, I leave it surround on 55% when using my headphones. You also kind of prove a point where detailed info on their cards are buried in a OEM business site. As for as the chip, I meant I don't think it's fixed function (true DSP). The Recon3D used THX branded tech, the SBz doesn't (except for DTS encoding); and knowing Creative, I'm sure the Recon chip hasn't changed since the original cards before the SBz refresh - although it's probably the same minus the THX naming.
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3459 of 5587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofy Goober View Post

yesterday i've swap my old X-Fi Titanium Champion PCI-E with a new Sound Blaster Zx...

i'm disappointed.

i have a TEUFEL 5.1 system (Concept E Magnum PE), and with the X-Fi my music sound A LOT better than with Zx.
With X-Fi i always enabled the CMSS 3D upmix with "surround stereo" setting, and the Front L/R and Back L/R speakers sound the same, like the stereo sound was simply "expanded" to all the speakers of the 5.1 system.

with the Zx and the SBX surround option, the sound is not equal for all the speakers... if i put the slider to 100%, the central speaker have much more sound than the front L/R....
the sound from the front speakers are WRONG. it's like the music is distorted from the sound card....
if the slider is set to 50%-60%, then the front L/R and the central speakers are much more balanced, and the sound seems to be more accurate, but i can barely hear the Back L/R speaker, now it's them that have a wrong sound mad.gif

the old CMSS 3D was simply reproducing a stereo sound from Front and Back speakers (and also centre)....

Is it possible to have the same effect with the Zx???

actually, i'm really missing my old X-Fi card now....

thanks in advance...
Uhh... If the problem is only in music, there is an extremely simple way to fix this: Don't use the soundcards own upmixing algorithm!

Foobar for example has stereo-->4.1 upmixing available in the preferences. And that's just the default DSP that comes with the player, you can install your own plugins.

Edited by Tiihokatti - 5/21/15 at 3:28am
Silent Hawk
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3570K @4,2GHz delidded Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Asus Geforce GTX 1070 Dual OC 2x Corsair Vengeance 4gb 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Kingston Hyperx 120gb SSD Western Digital Caviar Blue 1Tb Random LG DVD/RW ID-Cooling SE-214X 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
3x AC F12 1x Glide Stream Windows 10 Finlux 40" UHD TV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Speedlink Ultor Super Flower Golden Green Pro 750W Rosewill Blackhawk Logitech G502 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Hifiman HE-400 Objective2 Amplifier OR-210Hi speakers Chinese mini speaker-amplifier 
Other
Xilence Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
Silent Hawk
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3570K @4,2GHz delidded Asrock Z77 Extreme4 Asus Geforce GTX 1070 Dual OC 2x Corsair Vengeance 4gb 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Kingston Hyperx 120gb SSD Western Digital Caviar Blue 1Tb Random LG DVD/RW ID-Cooling SE-214X 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
3x AC F12 1x Glide Stream Windows 10 Finlux 40" UHD TV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Speedlink Ultor Super Flower Golden Green Pro 750W Rosewill Blackhawk Logitech G502 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Hifiman HE-400 Objective2 Amplifier OR-210Hi speakers Chinese mini speaker-amplifier 
Other
Xilence Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3460 of 5587
With a stereo signal (like music), common data will be seen as coming from the center channel when upmixing - especially when the surround option is at 100%. This is why Creative put sliders... adjust it to your liking.

As pointed out, if you simply want 4.1 stereo expansion, use foobar2000's mixing options. If you're music player doesn't have that option, use a different music player.

That stereo cloning feature was probably left out because it probably isn't used by many people.
Edited by umeng2002 - 5/21/15 at 3:41am
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Cards and Computer Audio
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Sound Cards and Computer Audio › [Official] Creative Sound Blaster Z, Zx & ZxR Series Club