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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 131

post #1301 of 2929
Mark, I think I may have found a potential issue I was having with www.testufo.com

Apparently my Titan's would not "throttle up" when Chrome demands the performance increase to run the tests at 120 FPS. Especially with multi-monitor enabled. My Titan's would stay at idle clocks more or less. I went into EVGA PrecisionX and under "voltage", there is something called K-Boost. Turning this on puts your GPU into full 3D clock performance mode. This allows me to run at full speed and even stretch the tests over three monitors and maintain 120 FPS. thumb.gif
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post #1302 of 2929
Well, this will be quick!

Got the Asus VG278HE in to compare against the BenQ XL2720T for the king of Lightboost monitors. I started to take some pictures until I realized the screen differences were so subtle that you couldn't even tell them apart in the photo's.

Pretty much makes sense, since the panels used are identical. Firstly, the contrast reference points for the screens are different. When I first turned on the Asus, it's contrast was set at 50 just like the BenQ. The Asus looked pretty bad and dim-muddy. I then realized both manufacturers just used a different contrast reference. Setting the contrast on the Asus to 84 pretty much matched the contrast setting on the BenQ of 50 to the T. So the BenQ has a wider contrast setting range.

With the Asus at 84 contrast and the BenQ at 50, the motion trailing/ghosting characteristics etc were fairly identical. For overall picture quality, I would ever so slightly give the edge to the BenQ. Both monitors have really impressive blacks in Lightboost mode with little back light bleed and great uniformity, especially compared to all of the 24" Lightboost monitors out there. Really between these two, the only differences are:

1. Contrast reference points, with the BenQ having a much better "center" reference.
2. Both have nice height adjustable/rotatable stands so it's a wash there. I personally like the BenQ design better.
3. On screen controls and buttons. Asus using mechanical buttons and BenQ using touch sensitive. I prefer the Asus mechanical as they always just work.
4. BenQ has a little green LED that shows when Lightboost is working. The Asus does not. Very handy!
5. As I write this, the Asus on Amazon is $381, the BenQ $472. A difference of a not insignificant $91.
6. The BenQ has a Displayport which makes the monitor more flexible which I like (and I wager more expensive). The only 120Hz capable interface the Asus has is Dual Link-DVI which could limit you in configurations and future GPU's.
7. The BenQ has a little base control "gadget", but I don't find it fairly useful now that ToastyX's utility is out in which you can change all Lightboost monitors brightness right from the task-bar. Basically the only control you ever have to touch once you get your LB monitor set up is the power button if you want to turn them on and off and not just power save mode.

Well, there you have it. Vega's top Lightboost monitor as of summer 2013 is the BenQ XL2720T. Now I am off to remove the matte-film and de-bezel three of these bad boys for my new NVIDIA Surround setup.

(PS, if anyone knows a shop that can do custom work with glass/mirror shapes, or knows how to cut glass plate at a 45 degree angle for a bezel-mask project please let me know).
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post #1303 of 2929
That was certainly impressive. Here's my suggestion:

If your monitor is 120Hz, then for BFI compare 120Hz with 60Hz BFI vs 60Hz. This would be much more interesting to see which one looks better.

Also, for those of us who can't push 120Hz but can push lower framerates, It'd be good if we could use 60Hz Vsync with BFI to improve the IQ.
post #1304 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

I plugged the second display into my graphics card, instead of the IGPU, and it actually runs now.
Actual Multiple Monitors and Chrome may actually not hate each other.
Thanks, glad to know that this solved the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Chrome doesn't seem to like having windows open on two monitor, though. The test doesn't run at the correct frame rate, if I have chrome open on both monitors.
Very interesting, I'll have to add this to a TestUFO FAQ to warn people with multimonitor setups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

That was certainly impressive.
Thanks for the compliment about TestUFO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

Here's my suggestion:
If your monitor is 120Hz, then for BFI compare 120Hz with 60Hz BFI vs 60Hz. This would be much more interesting to see which one looks better.
Good idea, that is something I will look into doing in the future.

120fps@120Hz will always look best.
60fps@120Hz BFI will have the same amount of motion blur as 120fps@120Hz, at least on 2ms TN's
60fps@120Hz without BFI will have twice as much motion blur in non-LightBoost mode, or a double-image effect with LightBoost/CRT.

BFI is useful if you need 60fps with the full LightBoost effect. (e.g. MAME).
Edited by mdrejhon - 7/20/13 at 8:55am
post #1305 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

50 just like the BenQ. The Asus looked pretty bad and dim-muddy. I then realized both manufacturers just used a different contrast reference. Setting the contrast on the Asus to 84 pretty much matched the contrast setting on the BenQ of 50 to the T. So the BenQ has a wider contrast setting range.
Actually, the ASUS may have a much more useful contrast range than the BENQ, but I'm not 100% sure if the VG278HE behaves the same as the VG278H in terms of contrast behavior. When I raise to 94, it is exactly at the white clipping point, and anything higher clips white. So above 94 is useless on the ASUS. Likewise, anything much above 50 may be useless on the BENQ. If this is true on the VG278HE too, then the ASUS has a wider useful contrast range.

When I lower my ASUS all the way down to about 50% or 45%, there is no visible ghosting or overdrive in the TestUFO Eiffel Tower Test on my VG278H.
post #1306 of 2929
No, the white clipping point was not near the setting of 84 on the Asus and 50 on the BenQ. The default setting of 50 on the Asus looked terrible and was like a contrast setting of 15 on the BenQ. Very dark and dingy, practically unusable. The VG278HE may have different electronics than the regular H model.
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post #1307 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

No, the white clipping point was not near the setting of 84 on the Asus and 50 on the BenQ. The default setting of 50 on the Asus looked terrible and was like a contrast setting of 15 on the BenQ. Very dark and dingy, practically unusable. The VG278HE may have different electronics than the regular H model.

I take it you weren't fond of the XL2420TE? Looking at your youtube videos the colors/contrast was weaker then your Asus QE (then again that has the matte film removed)
    
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post #1308 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

120fps@120Hz will always look best.
60fps@120Hz BFI will have the same amount of motion blur as 120fps@120Hz, at least on 2ms TN's
60fps@120Hz without BFI will have twice as much motion blur in non-LightBoost mode, or a double-image effect with LightBoost/CRT.

BFI is useful if you need 60fps with the full LightBoost effect. (e.g. MAME).

I have an X-Star at 120Hz, and what I was mostly interested in was BFI gaming. For those of us who can't push top framerates I would really like 60Hz (by vsync) with BFI to reduce motion blur. That's probably require game devs and/or nvidia and amd to do something though.
post #1309 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

That was certainly impressive. Here's my suggestion:

If your monitor is 120Hz, then for BFI compare 120Hz with 60Hz BFI vs 60Hz. This would be much more interesting to see which one looks better.

Also, for those of us who can't push 120Hz but can push lower framerates, It'd be good if we could use 60Hz Vsync with BFI to improve the IQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Thanks, glad to know that this solved the problem.
Very interesting, I'll have to add this to a TestUFO FAQ to warn people with multimonitor setups.
Thanks for the compliment about TestUFO!
Good idea, that is something I will look into doing in the future.

120fps@120Hz will always look best.
60fps@120Hz BFI will have the same amount of motion blur as 120fps@120Hz, at least on 2ms TN's
60fps@120Hz without BFI will have twice as much motion blur in non-LightBoost mode, or a double-image effect with LightBoost/CRT.

BFI is useful if you need 60fps with the full LightBoost effect. (e.g. MAME).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post

I have an X-Star at 120Hz, and what I was mostly interested in was BFI gaming. For those of us who can't push top framerates I would really like 60Hz (by vsync) with BFI to reduce motion blur. That's probably require game devs and/or nvidia and amd to do something though.


what's this BFI gaming ? BFI only appears on this page....
Edited by socketus - 7/20/13 at 3:19pm
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post #1310 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by socketus View Post

what's this BFI gaming ? BFI only appears on this page....
BFI is Black Frame Insertion.
It's a way of reducing motion blur in framerates that's lower than the monitor's Hz.
e.g. Reducing the blur or double-image effect during 60fps@120Hz.

Example animation:
www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes
(View this in Chrome browser)

LightBoost is also essentially equivalent to hardware-based black frame insertion, at roughly 3:1 ratio (LB=100%) to a 5:1 ratio (LB=10%). You can see this hardware-based strobing high speed video., which looks like it's inserting a black frame between refreshes (by turning off the backlight). Here, what we're essentially talking about is software-based BFI (strobing) to achieve 60Hz LightBoost, by using a black frame to blank-out every other strobe.

Basically, 60fps@120Hz with the motion clarity of 120fps@120Hz.
(Very obvious in the link above, if viewing the webpage in Chrome while LightBoost is enabled).
Edited by mdrejhon - 7/20/13 at 3:29pm
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