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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 136

post #1351 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

120cd/m2 is only really suggested for a relatively dim room.
Correct.

That said, a personal preference fudge factor is also thrown in. I have also run into people who found 100cd/m2 too blindingly bright for their eyes. I still strongly recommend monitor manufacturers include a wide dimming range, all the way down to a mere 5cd/m2 or 10cd/m2.

These levels are better at night when you want to keep your eyes mostly adjusted to the dark (e.g. bedroom glance at an iPhone). This is why an iPhone is able to adjust to less than 10cd/m2 -- people like this level sometimes during theater use, bedroom use, etc.

I am very glad to see that wider dimming range has been implemented on the XL2420TE -- now I know what 120Hz monitor to recommend to people who've emailed me saying Brightness=0% is still too bright.
post #1352 of 2929
Definitely. Seeing some monitors not even dip below 100cd/m2 is pretty inexcusable. It won't bother some users, of course, but it's an important flexibility to have. I too know people who prefer to use very low brightnesses (under 60cd/m2) particularly when reading on their computer at night.
post #1353 of 2929
Thread Starter 
BTW, measurements have shown that the iPhone 5 can dim from under 10 cd/m2 all the way to an eye-scorching 500+ cd/m2. Many computers monitors don't seem to do such a wide dimming range, which is a shame.
post #1354 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

BTW, measurements have shown that the iPhone 5 can dim from under 10 cd/m2 all the way to an eye-scorching 500+ cd/m2. Many computers monitors don't seem to do such a wide dimming range, which is a shame.

If Apple are good for anything, it's making more advanced tech mainstream and so forcing competitors to use it.
post #1355 of 2929
I just tried the ToastyX Strobelight program and it works perfectly. It's so much easier compared to dealing with the Nvidia drivers. The quick toggle combined with the ufo test is an excellent way to see just how much blur you're eliminating.

I hope the bugs get worked out with the 278H and AMD cards soon.

EDIT: It seems the resolution toggling needs some work. 120Hz toggles lightboost on and off perfectly. 110Hz with lightboost works fine but when I toggle it off it reverts to 120Hz with lightboost off instead of the intended 110Hz with lightboost off.
Edited by Derp - 7/26/13 at 9:27pm
post #1356 of 2929
Question: Do you folks think that the BFI technology could be implemented into Triple A titles? I am aware that it is only currently usable with MAME, but what if it could work with Battlefield 4? You know because it takes an insane amount of graphics power to keep BF4 at 100 frames per second or above. Anyways, been thinking about it and thought it was only suitable if it was asked here.
post #1357 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKidIsCrazy View Post

Question: Do you folks think that the BFI technology could be implemented into Triple A titles? I am aware that it is only currently usable with MAME
Good news, it is also built into WinUAE 2.6.0 now.
There's a new thread I recently posted on WinUAE Forum.
Quote:
but what if it could work with Battlefield 4? You know because it takes an insane amount of graphics power to keep BF4 at 100 frames per second or above. Anyways, been thinking about it and thought it was only suitable if it was asked here.
Theoretically.

Ideally, it should be done in graphics driver instead of the video game. For example, a special driver modification that makes the computer think it's running in 60Hz, but actually outputs 120Hz+BFI to the monitor. Since the computer "thinks" it's running at 60Hz, it would run with all games and all software.

It could also theoretically be done as a system tray utility for games that can run in windowed mode. You simply black-out the screen every other refresh (e.g. displaying a layered window that goes completely black/transparent every other refresh). If you add a 60fps framerate limiter to the games, then you will get essentially the same effect, but with potentially a few minor side effects (such as varying input lag, depending on whether the first repeat refresh is blacked out or the second repeat refresh is blacked out) since the strobing would not be fully synchronized with the game's framerate.
post #1358 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Theoretically.

Ideally, it should be done in graphics driver instead of the video game. For example, a special driver modification that makes the computer think it's running in 60Hz, but actually outputs 120Hz+BFI to the monitor. Since the computer "thinks" it's running at 60Hz, it would run with all games and all software.

It could also theoretically be done as a system tray utility for games that can run in windowed mode. You simply black-out the screen every other refresh (e.g. displaying a layered window that goes completely black/transparent every other refresh). If you add a 60fps framerate limiter to the games, then you will get essentially the same effect, but with potentially a few minor side effects (such as varying input lag, depending on whether the first repeat refresh is blacked out or the second repeat refresh is blacked out) since the strobing would not be fully synchronized with the game's framerate.

So, if the tech was put into drivers, do you think it would make it to AMD drivers? BFI is developing from Lightboost ( as in that is the only way it works), so I believe it would only make sense if it came from nVidia only. That would be a serious let down, but it is the only plausible answer.

Also, the second idea sounds great, but as you stated it would have side effects. Input lag could be a serious game changer for somewhat avid FPS players, such as myself. Varying input lag would be awful, so if the layered window refreshed every frame, maybe that would take the effect away?
post #1359 of 2929
Thread Starter 
BFI can benefit non-LightBoost 120Hz monitors, and overclocked 120Hz monitors.
However, it will only provide 50% motion blur reduction.
To understand the motion blur mathematics of BFI better:

---

60fps+BFI on non-LightBoost 120Hz
BFI Sequence: 8.3ms refresh + 8.3ms black frame
Length of Visible Frame: 8.3ms
Blur Elimination: 8.3ms:16.7ms = 50% motion blur elimination

As you can see, a 120Hz refresh is 8.3ms, while a 60Hz refresh is 16.7ms

---

60fps+BFI on LightBoost 120Hz
BFI Sequence: 1.4ms visible refresh + 6.9ms backlight off + 1.4ms black frame + 6.9ms backlight off
Length of Visible Frame: 1.4ms
Blur Elimination: 1.4ms:16.7ms = 92% motion blur elimination

A 120Hz LightBoost refresh at LB=10% is a 1.4ms strobe (visible refresh) followed by 6.9ms of darkness (backlight off).  LightBoost can only strobe at 120Hz, and can't be made to strobe at only 60Hz.  So the BFI trick is the equivalent of blocking every other strobe, to simulate 60Hz LightBoost via software means.

---

For those who do not understand fully, sample-and-hold motion blur is directly proportional to the length of visible refresh. Motion blur is reduced by shortening the refreshes. There are only two ways to do this efficiently. Either by increasing Hz -- or by adding black periods between refreshes. LightBoost does that. BFI also does that. We're just simply combining BFI+LightBoost to achieve "60Hz LightBoost" by blacking-out every other strobe with a black frame.

For those who are not familiar with sample-and-hold motion blur (the motion blur caused by eye-tracking), then see www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking within a supported web browser (e.g. Google Chrome). This motion demonstration looks very different on CRT than it does on regular LCD's.

---

Now, driver makers will not be doing this as BFI has numerous disadvantages. It can cause extra flicker, it can worsen colors, it can amplify LCD inversion artifacts, and it can cause LCD image retention on certain panels (flicker can interfere with LCD inversion's job of preventing burn-in). Not all monitors are prone to this. The best hope for software-based BFI is either a driver hack, or via a 3rd party utility.
Edited by mdrejhon - 7/27/13 at 10:05pm
post #1360 of 2929
I'd like to see a middle ground added to the testufo app. I call it LBFI - Low Brightness Frame Insertion. Motion blur reduction would be less, but a 25% brightness or less image between frames should still have some effect. Screen damage and flicker would be significantly reduced.
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