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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 144

post #1431 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Do you mean VSYNC OFF or VSYNC ON?
It is an input lag versus fluidity versus tearing compromise enable/disable VSYNC depending on your refresh rate. The clearest possible LightBoost motion occurs at framerate=Hz. But if your framerate is low, trying to do 80fps during VSYNC on at 120Hz, will tend to limit you to 60fps because it "rounds off to the next frame". Using either Adaptive VSYNC or VSYNC OFF avoids that, but you can get tearing.
post #1432 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

It is an input lag versus fluidity versus tearing compromise enable/disable VSYNC depending on your refresh rate. The clearest possible LightBoost motion occurs at framerate=Hz. But if your framerate is low, trying to do 80fps during VSYNC on at 120Hz, will tend to limit you to 60fps because it "rounds off to the next frame". Using either Adaptive VSYNC or VSYNC OFF avoids that, but you can get tearing.

I understand. But basically in my case, adaptive vsync and vsync off produces the same result (vysnc is DISABLED), right? So why did you mention this, I mean why is the advice still different for both situations:

VSYNC OFF -- try using highest refresh rate
Adaptive VSYNC -- try using framerate closer to average refresh rate


??

Basically my question is what strobe refresh rate do I use if my fps is just 80fps for my 120Hz monitor. Do I use 100Hz strobe or 120Hz strobe?
Edited by kevindd992002 - 8/9/13 at 2:30pm
post #1433 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

I understand. But basically in my case, adaptive vsync and vsync off produces the same result (vysnc is DISABLED), right? So why did you mention this, I mean why is the advice still different for both situations:

VSYNC OFF -- try using highest refresh rate
Adaptive VSYNC -- try using framerate closer to average refresh rate
Adaptive VSYNC looks exactly like VSYNC ON (but with less input lag) whenever framerate matches or exceeds refresh rate. So if you're averaging 80fps@100Hz, small tweaks of game settings can make it more sustained 100fps@100Hz, which allows motion to look perfect during either VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC. Adaptive VSYNC only looks like VSYNC OFF whenever the framerate slows down; tearing suddenly appears instead of a sudden framerate slowdown (lesser of evil during competitive gaming)
Quote:
Basically my question is what strobe refresh rate do I use if my fps is just 80fps for my 120Hz monitor. Do I use 100Hz strobe or 120Hz strobe?
It's not possible to always answer this question definitively for situations where framerate is not synchronized with Hz. It is game dependant / microstutter dependant. Sometimes 80fps@100Hz looks smoother, and sometimes 80fps@120Hz looks smoother. It has a lot to do with the consistency/cadence of the frames (even when compared at the same VSYNC setting), aka microstutters can get better or worse after switching refresh rates.

As a general rule of thumb, it often looks smoother when your framerate gets pretty close to refresh rate (e.g. 80fps @ 100Hz), but that does not happen with all games, and you get tradeoffs: You can get slightly more input lag at lower refresh rates. That said, improved motion quality can compensate for a small millisecond or two of input lag for some people, depending on your gameplay styles. And with some games, there's a potential hill of increased stutters as you struggle to reach framerate=Hz nirvana (where all stutters suddenly disappear). Strobing can make stutters very easy to see, even at 110fps@120Hz. So some people prefer LightBoost for 120fps (framerate=Hz), but prefer 144Hz for 80fps (framerate not equal Hz), because stutters are so easy to see with CRT's and LightBoost.

The answer is only definitive at framerate=Hz (mathematical perfection) if best motion quality is the primary goal over all else. During synchronized framerate=Hz is where motion resolution is maximized, for the full zero motion blur effect, untarnished by microstutters.

The true answer for 80fps on 120Hz is: Try all settings. Find what you prefer. Use your eyes. thumb.gif
- Try 120Hz VSYNC OFF
- Try 100Hz VSYNC OFF
- Try 100Hz VSYNC Adaptive
- Try temporarily reducing detail levels to get the coveted framerate=Hz (e.g. 100fps@100Hz)
- Etc.
Find which mode your eyes prefer, and how it feels in terms of input lag for you.
Edited by mdrejhon - 8/9/13 at 3:46pm
post #1434 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Adaptive VSYNC looks exactly like VSYNC ON (but with less input lag) whenever framerate matches or exceeds refresh rate. So if you're averaging 80fps@100Hz, small tweaks of game settings can make it more sustained 100fps@100Hz, which allows motion to look perfect during either VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC. Adaptive VSYNC only looks like VSYNC OFF whenever the framerate slows down; tearing suddenly appears instead of a sudden framerate slowdown (lesser of evil during competitive gaming)
It's not possible to always answer this question definitively for situations where framerate is not synchronized with Hz. It is game dependant / microstutter dependant. Sometimes 80fps@100Hz looks smoother, and sometimes 80fps@120Hz looks smoother. It has a lot to do with the consistency/cadence of the frames (even when compared at the same VSYNC setting), aka microstutters can get better or worse after switching refresh rates.

As a general rule of thumb, it often looks smoother when your framerate gets pretty close to refresh rate (e.g. 80fps @ 100Hz), but that does not happen with all games, and you get tradeoffs: You can get slightly more input lag at lower refresh rates. That said, improved motion quality can compensate for a small millisecond or two of input lag for some people, depending on your gameplay styles. And with some games, there's a potential hill of increased stutters as you struggle to reach framerate=Hz nirvana (where all stutters suddenly disappear). Strobing can make stutters very easy to see, even at 110fps@120Hz. So some people prefer LightBoost for 120fps (framerate=Hz), but prefer 144Hz for 80fps (framerate not equal Hz), because stutters are so easy to see with CRT's and LightBoost.

The answer is only definitive at framerate=Hz (mathematical perfection) if best motion quality is the primary goal over all else. During synchronized framerate=Hz is where motion resolution is maximized, for the full zero motion blur effect, untarnished by microstutters.

The true answer for 80fps on 120Hz is: Try all settings. Find what you prefer. Use your eyes. thumb.gif
- Try 120Hz VSYNC OFF
- Try 100Hz VSYNC OFF
- Try 100Hz VSYNC Adaptive
- Try temporarily reducing detail levels to get the coveted framerate=Hz (e.g. 100fps@100Hz)
- Etc.
Find which mode your eyes prefer, and how it feels in terms of input lag for you.

Got it! Thank you for this very detailed response. I pretty much get the gist now.

What happens if you use the 144Hz option in the ToastyX's utility if your screen can just support up to 120Hz?
post #1435 of 2929
Well, I'd think that it would be out of range, so your monitor will not give you a pic at all. Or will self correct with an onscreen warning message.
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post #1436 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Strobing can make stutters very easy to see, even at 110fps@120Hz. So some people prefer LightBoost for 120fps (framerate=Hz), but prefer 144Hz for 80fps (framerate not equal Hz), because stutters are so easy to see with CRT's and LightBoost.

The answer is only definitive at framerate=Hz (mathematical perfection) if best motion quality is the primary goal over all else. During synchronized framerate=Hz is where motion resolution is maximized, for the full zero motion blur effect, untarnished by microstutters.

Nuff said.
post #1437 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

What happens if you use the 144Hz option in the ToastyX's utility if your screen can just support up to 120Hz?
Usually, your monitor will just display a blank black screen during 144Hz. Some monitors such as XL2411T actually can support 144Hz even though the manufacturer doesn't advertise it very well.
post #1438 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Usually, your monitor will just display a blank black screen during 144Hz. Some monitors such as XL2411T actually can support 144Hz even though the manufacturer doesn't advertise it very well.

Ok thanks. Would using the 121Hz non-strobed (which is within range) be as effective as using 120Hz non-strobed?
post #1439 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Usually, your monitor will just display a blank black screen during 144Hz. Some monitors such as XL2411T actually can support 144Hz even though the manufacturer doesn't advertise it very well.

Ok thanks. Would using the 121Hz non-strobed (which is within range) be as effective as using 120Hz non-strobed?
post #1440 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

Ok thanks. Would using the 121Hz non-strobed (which is within range) be as effective as using 120Hz non-strobed?
It's exactly the same to the human eye. The two modes are actually only 0.5Hz apart. It's only called 121Hz, because Windows needs two separate refresh rates to easily enable/disable LightBoost. ToastyX solved the LightBoost enable/disable problem by using 120Hz for LightBoost, and 120.5Hz for non-LightBoost (rounded to 121Hz).

Via ToastyX Strobelight, install:
120Hz strobed
121Hz non-strobed.

It works fine on all LightBoost monitors.
Edited by mdrejhon - 8/10/13 at 11:14pm
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