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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 21

post #201 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

Depends on the game. But from what i have seen most games will look great above 120fps @ 120hz. But I believe vsync enabled will produce the best motion quality/clarity with each frame displayed timed exactly with the hz refresh rate of the monitor. That's if you dont mind vsync lag.
Here is what i did to get the VG278H stuck in 2d Lightboost mode (3d) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I did not use any registry tweak for my setup. What i did:
-> install clean Nvidia driver 306.xx or newer
-> checked enable stereoscopic 3d box
-> ran 3d Wizard
-> ran test stereoscopic 3d in N control panel
-> set refresh rate to 120hz & select Apply refresh rate to all games box, apply
-> launch test stereoscopic 3d tab
-> exit test app, (monitor should now be stuck in 3d mode)
-> uncheck Enable stereoscopic 3d box
-> apply



I followed your instructions and my display doesn't get stuck in 3d mode after exiting the 3d test. And no, I absolutely cannot stand the input lag introduced by Vsync. It looks extremely clear but mouse movement is disgusting.
post #202 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Got my XL2411T. I posted a sneak preview comparision in the HardForum thread, but I can crosspost over to here later.
Both are still zero motion blur. The faint "sharp ghost" effect ASUS was already very faint (like 3D crosstalk). The BENQ is much better in terms of remant trailing artifacts.

There's virtually zero crosstalk between refreshes, which makes the BENQ the best "3D glasses" monitor available (at the moment) if you like stereoscopic gaming.
I was not able to see the inter-refresh crosstalk on the ASUS most of the time (faint sharp duplicate edge artifact), but the new 1ms panels makes that even better.

I now have Windows 8 so I lost the ability to properly run PixPerAn properly, but I tested my motion tests (the one I announced on my blog) and am getting good measured MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time) in the 1.4ms to 1.9ms range with the BENQ XL2411T. The 1.9 value translates to a motion equivalence ratio almost reaching the 600 range, which is a score 10 times bigger than a typical 60Hz LCD. Note that MPRT is a different measurement method than pixel persistence, and MPRT measurements also works for plasma/CRT displays.

The PixPerAn score 30 is no problem for displays with MPRT's of less than 2ms. The limiting factor is the human eyes factor to be able to read fast moving text; so people are often getting 25-30 (but that's what some people were also getting when they ran PixPerAn on a 120Hz CRT, too -- they could not move their eyes fast enough to follow the text). The PixPerAn readability test runs at double speed at 120Hz than 60Hz, so the score of 30 is even more impressive at 120Hz than at 60Hz. This also additionally shows that motion blur is below human perceptible levels because any ultra-faint remaining motion blur is occurring when moving objects are moving too fast for human eyes to track.
Good to hear about the BenQ, thanks for the review. I could read the first 5 letters of level 30 of Pixperan, but like you said the text is just moving so fast its was too damn hard for my eyeballs to keep up, but it was clear.

Lightboost has been great. I will not game in 2d without Lightboost anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

I followed your instructions and my display doesn't get stuck in 3d mode after exiting the 3d test. And no, I absolutely cannot stand the input lag introduced by Vsync. It looks extremely clear but mouse movement is disgusting.
Hmm. It works every time for me 100%. Are you on Win7 or 8? Im on 7.
What driver are you using?
Many people i have talked to get the same results as me with the vg278h.
Edited by Swolern - 1/17/13 at 4:56pm
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post #203 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

I followed your instructions and my display doesn't get stuck in 3d mode after exiting the 3d test. And no, I absolutely cannot stand the input lag introduced by Vsync. It looks extremely clear but mouse movement is disgusting.
I'm able to disable VSYNC during videogames with LightBoost enabled. At least in Source engine video games.
You may want to try the ForceLightBoost registry file (Even if you already have 3D glasses).

There's another way to do this test (temporary): Start the game in 2D mode without LightBoost. Ensure you've got VSYNC on. Now keep the game running but switch to desktop (Alt+Tab) and go to nVidia Control Panel, enable 3D, and go back to the game that's still running. It will still be in 2D, with VSYNC off, but LightBoost is enabled.

......Bottom line: It appears we badly need a software utility (separate from nVidia Control Panel) that force-enables LightBoost independently of the nVidia graphics drivers / nVidia Control Panel. Something that can easily be invoked by hotkey. I'm wondering if LightBoost is enabled via a DDC command. I could license a copy of WinI2C/DDC (http://www.nicomsoft.com/wini2cddc-general-information/) and write a utility that transmit the DDC command to enable LightBoost independently of the graphics driver. (Side effect: Radeon support) The problem is I need to find a way to snoop the DDC channel to determine what command triggers LightBoost to be enabled. Probably a command that enables stereoscopic mode on the monitor side of things. If I could do this covertly without the graphics drivers going into stereoscopic mode, then I've got LightBoost during 2D that can now be rolled into a convenient system tray utility that can be fired at will, even via a hotkey. Some interesting stuff about hacking DDC from a BlackHat conference paper; this may be relevant, since I have Arduino circuits which could snoop into the I2C bus of the VESA DDC line of a DVI connection, to try and reverse engineer the LightBoost command. Alas, I'd appreciate help from a volunteer. (I'll try contacting ToastyX)
Edited by mdrejhon - 1/17/13 at 7:53pm
post #204 of 2929
Thread Starter 
P.S. May add Samsung S23A950D to supported monitors list for LightBoost. Someone reports that my LightBoost instructions work for Samsung S23A950D's (just the 23", sadly not 27") ... I'm wondering if anyone has an Acer HN274HB to test the instructions on, as that's also a LightBoost monitor. Generally, as a rule of thumb, a monitor that supports "3D Vision 2", has LightBoost in it.

List of LightBoost monitors on nVidia Website
- Acer HN274HB

Not listed on nVidia but reported to work
- BENQ XL2411T (many confirmations, including my own)
- Samsung S23A950D (or S23A950) -- not documented by nVidia, but someone said LightBoost worked. Need multiple confirmations.
Edited by mdrejhon - 1/17/13 at 8:20pm
post #205 of 2929
The Samsung has a strobe light? I looked at the specs and their was nothing that states either Lightboost or any back strobe light. There is a tech on the Sammy listed as Magicbright3, I wonder if that could be it?
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post #206 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

The Samsung has a strobe light? I looked at the specs and their was nothing that states either Lightboost or any back strobe light. There is a tech on the Sammy listed as Magicbright3, I wonder if that could be it?
It's possible. Someone posted in the comments section of LightBoost HOWTO that the SA950 worked. But yes, we need more confirmations. Also, I did some google searching and that the newer models of S23A950D's appear to support nVidia 3D Vision 2 under the newest operating systems with the latest drivers -- at least through the EDID override. That's enough clue that there's some sort of LightBoost, even if Samsung doesn't advertise it (maybe because some criteria didn't meet nVidia's rules).

From what I believe, all displays that supports "nVidia 3D Vision 2" all have a strobe backlight feature, even if undocumented.

On the same subject, I'm wondering about DDC commands that enables LightBoost, because we need a utility to enable LightBoost on demand, independently of nVidia drivers.
Edited by mdrejhon - 1/17/13 at 9:09pm
post #207 of 2929
I owned a SAMSUNG S27A950D prior to my Asus. The 3d had so much more 3d ghosting compared to the Asus I find it hard to believe that it had a strobe light in its backlight.

That would be amazing if you found a way to enable Lighboost through DDC commands. That would mean all our AMD buddies could enjoy the 2d Lightboost effects also. I wish I could help you some but your display knowledge is much more extensive than mine.

Lightboost is one of the main reasons I'm staying with Nvidia cards right now. AMD cards scale so much better with 3&4-way GPU configurations. 3d Vision use to be my main concern, but Nvidia has been having extremely poor 3d vision support lately on new games, pissing me off!
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post #208 of 2929
I have a hard time getting a feeling of the zero motion blur at 120 FFPS 120 HZ.

Would it be the same as looking at an object when not moving the screen ?
post #209 of 2929
Yes, the picture quality should not drop at all when moving. (texture detail, readability, object edges)
post #210 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

Hmm. There is a tiny faint ghost image when moving something black on white background very fast. The ghost only trails behind the image 1mm at most and is very hard to see. Dont notice any ghosting in games. What you are describing sounds severe. Have you tried both 120hz and 144hz settings? If not mistaken the Lightboost can only coordinate up to 120hz. Do you see any of this in-game?

When in 2D lightboost mode on windows desktop using the driver override trick, the refresh rate only goes up to 120hz in windows settings anyway. And yeah it is quite a bit like 1-2cm ghosting, just moving a window at normal speed not very fast. In Chrome (with smooth scroll plug in thing) Just scrolling down cases like 2cm of ghosting on the lines separating forum posts!

It is visible in game but not clearly so, probably because you don't usually get obvious very dark to very light colour clashes in games? Anyway it's not intrusive in games unless I look for it. Just annoying mainly in Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Your LightBoost may not be turned on --
Can you go into your monitor adjustments and tell me if the "LightBoost" is adjustable in the monitor's mneus?
If not, then that means your LightBoost is turned off via the graphics card -- try double checking the instructions.
If it is adjustable, let's troubleshoot.

Yep it's adjustable. I have all the symptoms, screen dimmer, OSD shows "3D mode" and you can only adjust lightboost and contrast. Also fast moving text is clearly readable when you follow it (although looks jerky and blurry if you don't follow it exactly to speed with your eyes, that's normal I suppose?)

Anyway another issue I found, when the display switches to 3D lightboost mode (ie you start a game, get the 3D info text bottom right of screen and haven't pressed ctrl t yet), then the entire PC slows to a halt, mouse movement updates once a second or so, you have 1fps,and you have to hold down ctrl t to get it to register and switch to 2D mode as the PC is so unresponsive. All is fine once ctrl t works though. No fps hit or anything when it's properly in 2D lightboost.

This didn't happen with my VG278H I don't think, only with my VG278HE (with override inf file installed).

I have Nvidia control panel set to enable stereoscopic 3D, and set to "always". Used the inf file and the force lightboost registry file too.

And another thing, when moving a window on the desktop, straight edges get very jagged. Is that normal? Only while moving. Any straight edge whether in game or Windows desktop or anywhere.
Edited by hamzatm - 1/18/13 at 12:56pm
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