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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 23

post #221 of 2929
Sorry DP

Took some photos of the ghosting with my Android camera (Galaxy S2), not the best but you can see the ghosting in action:
20130118_235001.jpg

Stripes on the screen are due to my camera not being fast enough to capture 1/12th of a second, but if you look at the car at the top which is moving from right to left pretty fast, you can (hopefully) see the ghosting trails. It's most noticeable on the text in the speech box. It shoes up very faintly in the photo, but on screen that sort of ghosting is very visible.

Also 1-2cm I mentioned before is definitely off, but it gets to 1cm no problem as is visible.
Edited by hamzatm - 1/20/13 at 5:59pm
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post #222 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by writer21 View Post

27" vg278HE monitor. I love this monitor especially for older or less demanding games. As for BF3 I'm hoping to get another MSI 670 PE soon to get my frame rate up in bf3. But what I have noticed with this monitor is I guess because of the size and resolution with enough distance there is no need for MSAA in BF3. Still looks sharp and has nice graphics and very little if any jaggies. Worked for Blackops 2 as well but 2xmsaa is all that is needed. This allows for more frames.

But the drivers out now suck. Hopefully they fix them and drivers are a big reason I changed to Nvidia from AMD.
Trust me i have been chasing BF3 performance for almost a year now. Nvidia is not all to blame. Battlelog and BF3 game engine are much to blame as they are riddled with bugs with many PC configurations. Many times when Dice updated BF3 or battlelog the GPU performance and utilization will change, and its usually for the worse. And Nvidia is the one that has to come behind them and try to adjust the drivers again so they will play nice with BF3s new updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

Sorry DP

Took some photos of the ghosting with my Android camera (Galaxy S2), not the best but you can see the ghosting in action: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
20130118_235001.jpg

Stripes on the screen are due to my camera not being fast enough to capture 1/12th of a second, but if you look at the car at the top which is moving from right to left pretty fast, you can (hopefully) see the ghosting trails. It's most noticeable on the text in the speech box. It shoes up very faintly in the photo, but on screen that sort of ghosting is very visible.

Also 1-2cm I mentioned before is definitely off, but it gets to 1cm no problem as is visible.
I have heard of the Lightboost strobe light not correlating well with the LCDs and causing this effect of bad trailing effect.

Your pic is really hard to see. This pic was taken from a BenQ monitor. They did testing on another website. They stated there was zero visible ghosting trail with XL2411T. He did get a pic with a high speed camera. There is a faint ghost there, but stated was not visible with the naked eye, and only visable in this magnified paused state. This is similar to what i have found also with my VG278H, with just a tad more ghost effect. But again i see zero of this while gaming.

Edited by Swolern - 1/23/13 at 5:49pm
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post #223 of 2929
Sorry about the pic, the ghosting isn't coming up very well in the pic. But if you look at the top car, the text box where the text is; you can see that the text has ghosted (just look the right of NEED and MORE) pretty significantly against the background. And yeah in real life you can see that ghosting very clearly.

I'm pretty sure I have exactly what you mentioned, the lightboost strobe not correlating well with the LCD. Do you have any idea how I can fix that? Reset or recalibrate the inverter or something?
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post #224 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

Sorry about the pic, the ghosting isn't coming up very well in the pic. But if you look at the top car, the text box where the text is; you can see that the text has ghosted (just look the right of NEED and MORE) pretty significantly against the background. And yeah in real life you can see that ghosting very clearly.

I'm pretty sure I have exactly what you mentioned, the lightboost strobe not correlating well with the LCD. Do you have any idea how I can fix that? Reset or recalibrate the inverter or something?
There are two causes that I am aware. The ghosting is not blurred (still zero motion blur); it's a "sharp ghost" effect but the ghost should become invisible in normal gaming use.

(bad situation) I had a strange situation recently. Two times, I've seen a situation where LightBoost was running while the monitor refreshed at only 60 frames per second, causing a problematic effect. This went away when I disabled and then re-enabled LightBoost, and made sure that framerate was actually running at 120fps, instead of 60fps. Hitting Control-T repeatedly also seemed to fix one of these situations, while repeatedly enabling/disabling the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox fixed the other.
-- The bug I encountered above, would yield two equally clear double images during motion. (the 60fps@120Hz effect)

(normal situation) The ultrafaint "sharp ghost" is simply the remaining crosstalk between refreshes. This is much worse without LB -- it is more invisible than with LB on. Try turning on/off LB and running PixPerAn with it. If LB doesn't eliminate 95-99% of the trailing (>99% on a 1ms BENQ XL2411T), there is a problem. It is the remnants of the panel's pixel persistence limitations, and the newer 1ms panels (BENQ XL2411T) are even better in this regards, since those have nearly zero 3D crosstalk.
-- The ultrafaint "sharp trailing image" is a normal limitation but should be 95-99+% gone (compared to LB off). It is equivalent in intensity to 3D crosstalk (leakage of frames between eyes).
Edited by mdrejhon - 1/24/13 at 11:33am
post #225 of 2929
Thanks, I get exactly as you said, a sharp and clear ghost trail. It's not ultra faint though, it's actually very noticeable on the desktop, when doing anything at all.

But yeah also it isn't that noticeable in normal gaming use, and no double vision thing so I don't believe it's the 60Hz problem.

I'll try toggling LB and running pixperan as you said.



Update: doesn't make any difference. The ghosting is super visible in LB mode but not as much in normal mode. It's definitely 120Hz. With LB the image is super clear but so is the ghost trail.

With LB disabled and at 144Hz its blurry as expected, and with faint ghosting at maximum TraceFree setting. The ghosting is very faint not like during LB where it is vivid. Also by reducing Trace Free you can reduce the ghost trail, but tbh it isn't intrusive at all.

Whereas the LB ghosting is massively intrusive.
Edited by hamzatm - 1/24/13 at 1:14pm
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post #226 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

Thanks, I get exactly as you said, a sharp and clear ghost trail. It's not ultra faint though, it's actually very noticeable on the desktop, when doing anything at all.
Interesting observation. Do you have 3D glasses? If the artifact you see is the same intensity as 3D crosstalk while wearing 3D glasses, then that's the unavoidable crosstalk limitation -- the pixels are essentially only 95-99% of the way to their final value when the backlight strobes for certain color transitions (e.g. black transiting towards white). I haven't found it objectionable since on my VG278H it is very faint for most GtG color pairs and I mainly use it during video games. The faint remnant does become more noticeable if you scroll black text on a white background.

On the BENQ XL2411T that I received from the UK, this sharp-ghost artifact (crosstalk) is far fainter. It looks about 10x fainter than the ASUS VG278H for most GtG transitions. I can really tell that the new 1ms panels make a huge difference for LightBoost; the response-time-compensation is very LightBoost-optimized. If you are bothered by the sharp-ghost artifact, the XL2411T gets my recommendation.
Edited by mdrejhon - 1/25/13 at 12:33am
post #227 of 2929
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep the 2411t in mind.

I do have the 3D glasses that I got with my VG278H (i have both the VG278H and VG278HE at the moment) but I don't have an IR emitter (obviously the emitter for the 278H is built in) so would the glasses still work?

Anyway I switched to the VG278H, turned on LB and it's better than the HE. I still get the strange crosstalk ghosting but much less vivid. I could pretty much ignore it in Windows. It's there as soon as you look for it though, but now only in certain conditions, ie light and dark contrasting.

Definitely an improvement!

I can test the HE with glasses eventually (for the sake of science!) but at the moment I just don't want to go through the hassle of switching screens on my tiny desk smile.gif
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post #228 of 2929
OK I've tested the VG278H vs VG278HE side-by-side in 3D and 2D LB and here are the results:



VG278HE screen has reddish tint in LB mode, darker too - perhaps the redness makes it look a little darker?
Ghosting is a vivid purple or white (depending on whether it ghosts a dark colour on light background or ghosts a light colour on a dark background). Is very noticeable, jumps out at you - can't fail to notice it. Stands out stark against the background.
When moving straight lines (e.g. vertical lines moving to the right and left), they fuzz badly, have blue/red fuzzy tints to them and basically looks terrible, like white noise on a TV set. Most noticeable with a vertical blue/red edge.

VG278H screen looks natural and bright in LB mode
Ghosting from dark colours is faint and not that noticeable unless you look for it. It is unobtrusive. Because the colour of it is so light it blends in with the background.
Straight lines move smoothly like they should, and appear like straight lines. No fuzziness to be seen.



I also tested them in 3D using the 3D test scene and glasses. The H had light smooth crosstalk that was pretty faint. The HE had crosstalk that was also faint but more vivid than the H. Very tiny difference though.
The most profound difference was that the crosstalk of the H was smoothed out, it looked like high resolution shading, as if it had been anti aliased. The crosstalk on the HE looked like it hadn't been aliased, you could see the fuzzy blocks making up the crosstalk. This is similar to the smooth vs fuzzy moving-straight-lines phenomena described above.

My 278HE could be faulty, I don't know. They are on the same settings exactly, at least the settings you can change in 3D (lightboost) mode anyway.
Edited by hamzatm - 1/25/13 at 2:03pm
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post #229 of 2929
Not sure what it is about this reddish tint on some Lightboost monitors in Lightboost mode. Was enough for me to disregard them. The 144 Hz 24" BenQ had it pretty bad.
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post #230 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzatm View Post

OK I've tested the VG278H vs VG278HE side-by-side in 3D and 2D LB and here are the results:



VG278HE screen has reddish tint in LB mode, darker too - perhaps the redness makes it look a little darker?
Ghosting is a vivid purple or white (depending on whether it ghosts a dark colour on light background or ghosts a light colour on a dark background). Is very noticeable, jumps out at you - can't fail to notice it. Stands out stark against the background.
When moving straight lines (e.g. vertical lines moving to the right and left), they fuzz badly, have blue/red fuzzy tints to them and basically looks terrible, like white noise on a TV set. Most noticeable with a vertical blue/red edge.

VG278H screen looks natural and bright in LB mode
Ghosting from dark colours is faint and not that noticeable unless you look for it. It is unobtrusive. Because the colour of it is so light it blends in with the background.
Straight lines move smoothly like they should, and appear like straight lines. No fuzziness to be seen.



I also tested them in 3D using the 3D test scene and glasses. The H had light smooth crosstalk that was pretty faint. The HE had crosstalk that was also faint but more vivid than the H. Very tiny difference though.
The most profound difference was that the crosstalk of the H was smoothed out, it looked like high resolution shading, as if it had been anti aliased. The crosstalk on the HE looked like it hadn't been aliased, you could see the fuzzy blocks making up the crosstalk. This is similar to the smooth vs fuzzy moving-straight-lines phenomena described above.

My 278HE could be faulty, I don't know. They are on the same settings exactly, at least the settings you can change in 3D (lightboost) mode anyway.
Thanks for the side by side comparison. +Rep thumb.gif
There must be something wrong with your HE. I sure hope they are not all like that.

I feel the same way about the VG278H. I am very happy with the Lightboost mode. So much that i will not game in 2d without it. (Now if i could just get all games to run at 5760x1080 @ 120fps is the problem)
As far as the color. I actually prefer the Lightboost mode look(with contrast increased to 92). Compared to regular 2d mode where the screen is brighter, but the colors are also a little washed out. The dimmer lightboost mode actually makes the blacks a deeper level and gives the image quality a little more pop. On the downside the bright colors are not as vivid in regular 2d, but its a minimal difference. And i see zero ghosting while gaming.
Also no reddish tinting here on my three VG278Hs. All of this is of course outweighed by the smoothest and clearest motion gaming i have ever witnessed.
Edited by Swolern - 1/25/13 at 10:26pm
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