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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 64

post #631 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post

I'll try it after I finish OC'ing all of the components of my system smile.gif

Cheers thumb.gif

Unfortunately my monitor has three permanently lit white pixels, luckily Amazon are pretty cool when it comes to replacements. Got a replacement that will be here Tuesday and the one I have will be picked up tomorrow. Can't say enough good things about Amazon, Great customer service.
Edited by Razor 116 - 3/10/13 at 11:27am
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post #632 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

Thank you for clarifying that. thumb.gif

Curious why this way of strobing back lights didn't have the same effect in 2D gaming with motion blur?

Off topic - Do you know why they were discontinued? I looked at those monitors before my current one. If it wasn't for 3D Vision I was leaning SA950 route if I could have got passed the glossy panel. They are amazing monitors.....did I miss their upgrades? And if so, Did they come with the same strobing back light?

The Samsung models do give a reduction in motion blur when gaming in 2D if you're using a strobing mode like Frame Sequential smile.gif. http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung/

I don't know why they were discontinued to be honest. There were issues with backlight uniformity, but they aren't unique in that respect. There were also some notable loss of connection issues for the SA750 and SA950 using DisplayPort which was particularly problematic on the SA750 as it lacked DVI. This seemed to affect Nvidia users more readily. There were also some strange bugs such as this bright 'rainbow ghosting' which seems to occur if you switch from 'Faster' to 'Fastest' response time setting (particularly in game) but not if you switch from 'Normal' straight to 'Fastest'. Given the premium price tag, at least initially, perhaps the return rate was higher than Samsung could stomach.

I had hoped that these images would be rectified in a new revision or similar new release. I'm not really sure what's going on in that regard though!
post #633 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

The Samsung models do give a reduction in motion blur when gaming in 2D if you're using a strobing mode like Frame Sequential smile.gif. http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung
They were extremely high priced, especially the 950D. So they may not have sold very well. IMHO, Samsung never marketed these monitors very well, and this was before Blur Busters Blog started widely publicizing the benefits of a strobe backlight for fast-action video gaming, for those people who really prefer the "CRT effect".

I suspect this is helping sell a bunch of BENQ XL2411T's and ASUS VG248QE's as we speak -- they have the price sweet spot of $300 which is half the price of a Samsung 950D -- and these new 1ms monitors arrived roughly around the same time the LightBoost trick was widely discovered (credit to esreality, TechNGaming for starting to publicize this more widely). I'd now bet that we're approaching 5-10% of sales of the new ASUS VG248QE is because somebody heard about LightBoost.

My blur busters blog web statistics (10,000 pageviews/week on LightBoost HOWTO, half of it from review websites like TechNGaming, etc.) is detecting blog reviewers from Poland, German, and Russia that's also discovered LightBoost.

Example (from overclockers.ru that showed up in my web statistics)
CRT Style. Обзор и тестирование монитора ASUS VG248QE
Quote:
Процедура включения Lightboost для 2D довольно проста, не потребует специальных навыков и более 5 минут времени. Единственное «Но» – требуется видеокарта NVIDIA. C ускорителем AMD проделать подобное не удастся, как сейчас, так и по всей вероятности в будущем.
Полученные результаты представлены ниже:
94_lightboost_on.jpg

Poor English Translation:
Quote:
The start up procedure for 2D Lightboost pretty simple, does not require special skills and more than 5 minutes of time. The only "but" - requires a graphics card NVIDIA. C accelerator AMD do not be like it is now, and probably in the future.
The results are presented below:
94_lightboost_on.jpg

There's a bunch of equivalent reviews in several other languages, including Poland, German... so it's selling Asus VG248QE's worldwide already.

Video game monitor manufacturers needs to take this VERY seriously; and start advertising the benefits... At least as an easy toggle feature (button, menu).
Edited by mdrejhon - 3/10/13 at 11:49am
post #634 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizonian View Post

Thank you for clarifying that. thumb.gif
Check out:
- Existing scanning backlight technology in HDTVs (none of them game-friendly due to input lag!!!)
- Scanning Backlight FAQ (very detailed)
- Science & References (interesting reading)
Quote:
Curious why this way of strobing back lights didn't have the same effect in 2D gaming with motion blur?
There are many reasons:

1. Early scanning/strobe backlights like BENQ AMA-Z in year 2006 only reduced motion blur by about 1.5x and flickered annoyingly at 60 Hz.
......That's ONLY 30% less motion blur than 60 Hz LCD, flicker makes it not worthwhile.

2. Samsung/Sony HDTV scanning backlights only reduce motion by about 2x to 4x
......That's ONLY 50%-75% less motion blur than 60 Hz LCD, and very, very BAD input lag.
......Scanning backlights have a problem of diffusion between off-segments and on-segments; interferes with blur elimination.

3. Full panel strobe backlights are vastly superior for motion blur elimination, as a result.
...... But are more challenging for LCD panel itself; panel needs to do the difficult feat of cramming nearly the entire pixel persistence transition inside the time period of a vertical blanking interval-- the idle time period between refreshes -- required for 3D shutter glasses operation -- to get fully clear frames before next refresh begins. This wasn't possible until recently. Once this was done, it was possible to successfully shatter the pixel persistence barrier. (e.g. ASUS VG278H 2ms TN panel with a true measured MPRT of 1.4ms with a LightBoost backlight, LightBoost OSD=10%. Actsual measured MPRT's lower than pixel persistence!!! !!! !!! -- From the Blur Busters perspective, this is the key engineering breakthrough: the holy grail for motion blur elimination on LCD's. As a result, there is actually now no limit to how sharp motion can be on an LCD. Once pixel persistence was successfully compressed into the blanking interval, it was now possible to keep it in total darkness. The limiting factor is how short you can flash your backlight.

4. A tweaked LightBoost backlit LCD has 12x less motion blur (92% less motion blur!) than a 60 Hz LCD
It is only recently that the first strobed backlight that is truly worthwhile because
......it is computer/game friendly
......input lag is sufficiently low (for most people)
......no interpolation artifacts. It is pure.
......it flickers at sufficiently high frequencies (120 Hz)
......graphics are powerful enough for 120fps in many popular games (even if slightly older engines, like Source Engine)
......it has a large order of magnitude reduction in motion blur (provided fps=Hz -- e.g. 120fps@120Hz)

But finally, game-worthwhile strobe backlight technology has arrived, long after manufacturers gave up marketing them to gamers. (e.g. BENQ in 2006). Manufacturers now need to come back and look at these seriously.

There are fewer disadvantages (than there used to be) so more and more people in the high end gaming niche market, are finally starting to say "wow"; even though poor scanning backlights have been somewhat "phony" (HDGuru's word) with less-than-expected benefit. My Scanning Backlight FAQ explains why they weren't worth it for computer/games yesterday, but are finally worth it today. (even though there is lots of improvement that can happen -- better color quality, bring the technology to IPS, shorter strobe lengths, easier to enable, etc)
Edited by mdrejhon - 3/11/13 at 9:00am
post #635 of 2929
I am attempting a set up very similar to what Vega is running. In fact, I had 3 VG248QE's sent to him for matte film removal, and I am also trying to run portrait surround. I have installed the inf file on all three monitors and installed the registry hack and have rebooted multiple times. I then enabled surround to get to 3240x1920 and set the refresh rate to 120hz.

This is the NVCP that I see:


There is no option to Set Up 3D and actually enable Lightboost. Even before I enabled surround I did not see any more options under Stereoscopic 3D. I am running 314 Beta drivers. Is there something I am missing?

Edit: What I would really like to get set up is 100hz Lightboost because I think I could run that better.
Edited by thebski - 3/10/13 at 12:09pm
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post #636 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebski View Post

There is no option to Set Up 3D and actually enable Lightboost. Even before I enabled surround I did not see any more options under Stereoscopic 3D. I am running 314 Beta drivers. Is there something I am missing?

Edit: What I would really like to get set up is 100hz Lightboost because I think I could run that better.
You have to enable 3D Vision *before* you merge your monitor into surround. Enable LightBoost on one monitor at a time. Apparently, it doesn't work if you haven't pre-initialized your monitors into 3D Vision at least once.

It becomes much easier if you have the shutter glasses emitter (Even if you don't plan to use it), then you can pull this off without the hack (.inf file). But if you don't, then you need to initialize LightBoost one monitor at a time (make each monitor take turns being the primary), and then you can do the CRU.exe method of doing surround via EDID override (at least until you unplug your monitor, then you have to do it over again or get the emitter.

Also, remember strobe lengths are longer at 100 Hz, so you get 20% more motion blur at 100 Hz than at 120 Hz, for the same LightBoost OSD setting, but this is better than judders (Which interferes with motion blur reduction/elimination). You do need fps=Hz operation to get maximum benefit from a strobed backlight technology.

The good news is ToastyX (Creater of CRU.exe) is now obtaining a LightBoost monitor, and he'll try to figure out an easy way of enabling LightBoost. I will be working with him with my knowledge. But for now, you'll have to do the hack method on each monitor before you tie them together with Surround. Keep tuned...
Edited by mdrejhon - 3/10/13 at 2:39pm
post #637 of 2929
Ok, just to be sure I'm following what you are referring to as the hack ... I installed the.inf file to make it think I'm running VG278's for all 3 monitors in Device Manager. Then I installed the registry hack to allow 2D lightboost.

After that, with SLI disabled, the above photo is the only Stereoscopic 3D option I have. I have not tried enabling SLI in single screen mode. Is that what I am missing?
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post #638 of 2929


This is what my device manager and NVCP look like with all 3 displays activated in non-surround mode. Please note this is not possible in SLI because all 3 displays can't be activated since they are not all 3 on GPU 1.
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post #639 of 2929
Ski, 3D option is removed in portrait. Rotate to landscape, enable 3D, rotate back to portrait. wink.gif
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post #640 of 2929
Excellent. Thanks Vega!
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