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LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur! - Page 75

post #741 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

LightBoost quality -- I have a VG278H (similar to HE) and XL2411T (similar to VG248QE). LightBoost quality is similiar on most LightBoost monitors; there's no difference in motion blur between the two except for differences in LCD artifacts. The BENQ's better but had a purple tint that needed adjustment. Some LightBoost monitors have a purple tint (the VG248QE has a worse LightBoost colors before calibration). The crosstalk varies quite a lot between them -- faint LightBoost artifacts mainly seen in PixPerAn and motion tests but usually not in games -- and the XL2411T / VG248QE is very noticeably better than the VG278HE in terms of the LightBoost artifacts (showing up as faint sharp trailing ghost double-image which you may have seen). Some users/reviews/sources (including myself) are claiming the ASUS has better color than the BENQ, while others are claiming less LightBoost artifacts on the BENQ, etc. But I've also heard of people doing stellar jobs of calibrating their BENQ with a colorimeter.

The calibration -- For properly calibrated LightBoost monitor, the differences do greatly diminish. If you haven't recalibrated your LightBoost monitor, getting a Spyder sensor or another colorimeter, can be the biggest upgrade your monitor has ever had. If color is the issue, keep the monitor and calibrate.

The size issue -- Legitimate concern. Then again, the 27" DPI down to 24" DPI can look better for a small desk since 27" is rather large and very subject to the TN viewing angle issue. I must admit the 27" is rather large and low density (Mind you, I'm spoiled by Mac Retina displays too); but I've kept it anyway because other members in the household like the larger size. I'd rather have a 27" LightBoost monitor than go back to my old 24" Samsung 245BW non-LightBoost monitor which I was using previously (I got it in 2007; one of the first 2ms TN's with near-zero input lag). I'm losing 1200p and getting 1080p; but gaining the zero motion blur capability.

How about compared to the XL2420TX? Is the VG248QE better?
post #742 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamipop View Post

I took shots of 120hz nonlightboost, 144hz and 120 hz Lightboost. You can tell the difference between the Lighboost and nonlightboost tests in Pixperan. I did the nonlightboost videos at tempo 15. The lighboost was done at 30. Tell me if Im wrong but can't you tell which one is clearer. I know everyone has said that a video can't show the real results because it depends on the setup you are watching it from. But it looks pretty obvious to me. I even switch bacxk to 60 hz and watched the videos on youtube and could tell a difference. Am I crazy or no? Just want to do my part to show people the improvement in motion blur we all see since Im not able to participate as in depth as Mark and Vega thumb.gif

144 hz non LB http://youtu.be/amEfh4InJAI
120 hz non Lb http://youtu.be/1KObCyOiqyI
120 LB http://youtu.be/qUA9RxrN4B4
Good work capturing the differences in video; this is almost the correct method. The proper way is to do it photographically rather than as video, because you can't easily control shutter speed in a video camera, but you can in a photographic camera (Ideally, you want an electronically controlled moving camera to track moving objects perfectly, though!). Your YouTube videos are valid demonstrations; the motion blur improvements of LightBoost is so dramatic that it's revealed even in a shaky manually-driven pursuit camera.

You did more-or-less correct technique (just need to control the scientific variables like forcing your video camera to use a shutter speed of least a 1/60sec shutter exposure per frame); You did a manual equivalent of an automated motion-blur-measurement "pursuit camera"; however, I have have developed a cheap blogger-friendly accurate pursuit camera technique (+/-1 pixel tracking accuracy) to create the images in my LCD Motion Artirfacts:
Quote:
The Blur Busters has created LCD Motion Artifacts 101, showing accurate photography
of ghosting, coronas, motion blur, and PWM artifacts!

pursuitcam_ghosting-300x69.jpg . . pursuitcam_motionblur-300x69.jpg

pursuitcam_coronas-300x69.jpg . . pursuitcam_pwm-300x70.jpg

We are the world’s first blog to utilize a pursuit camera for capturing motion artifacts!
See LCD Motion Artifacts 101!

Pursuit camera are used by display manufacturers for testing motion blur (e.g. MotionMaster, and other MPRT pursuit cameras). This is simply a camera that follows on-screen motion. These expensive cameras are extremely accurate at measuring motion blur and other artifacts, since they simulate the eye tracking motion of moving eyes.

Blur Busters has developed an inexpensive pursuit camera method which operates in conjunction with the upcoming Blur Busters Motion Tests, and also makes possible accurate photography of common LCD motion blur artifacts. Keep tuned for the announcement of the technique...

Pursuit camera is the correct & proper technique for accurate camera measurement of human-eye perceived motion blur; and the co-relation is already discussed in several scientific papers:

http://oa.upm.es/4239/1/INVE_MEM_2008_59190.pdf
.....(term "pursuit camera method" in section 2)
http://www.sidmembers.org/idonline/article.cfm?year=2007&issue=01&file=art7
.....("smooth-pursuit camera system")
http://research.nokia.com/files/bergquist_johan_seminar_sidtw_071219.pdf
.....(slide 43, "linearly moving" camera)

Essentially, pursuit cameras (chase camera) is the measuring-equipment equivalent to a moving eyeball tracking a moving on-screen object. This is the proper technique for measuring motion blur; it just hasn't been accessible to bloggers (in a scientifically accurate method) until recently.
Edited by mdrejhon - 3/22/13 at 12:06am
post #743 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansive View Post

Nice panning, did you do that by hand?
You can tell the difference because when you keep up with the text it is mostly stationary, so even 60Hz LCDs can view that.
60 Hz LCD's become completely blurred in pursuit camera tests, for shutter speeds matching refresh length. Confirmed.
Also read my previous post about professional ($10,000+) motion blur measurement pursuit cameras.

That's because the camera is moving while the 60 Hz frames are static. So the static refreshes are blurred across the camera view.
Accurate pursuit camera (moving +/-1 pixels speed accuracy with the onscreen object) has the same amount of motion blur as seen by human eye.
Therefore you got approximately 16 pixels width of motion blur in your photograph for moving objects moving at 16 pixels per second, for a camera operating at 1/60sec exposure.

Video cameras aren't exactly the proper method because video cameras don't always use 1/60sec shutter speed in capturing frames; you need to control the shutter speed in order to produce an accurate pursuit camera test. The WYSIWYG motion blur accuracy (photographed motion blur equivalence to human perceived motion blur) becomes amazingly accurate if you can stack multiple refreshes to ~1/15sec or ~1/30sec. It is possible for video cameras with fast shutter speeds (e.g. 1/400sec) can 'stroboscopically' eliminate motion blur in pursuit camera tests.

So for proper WYSIWYG pursuit camera, you need a shutter speed matching or exceeding the length of a refresh. For improved accuracy in pursuit camera photography, a longer shutter speed capturing a reasonable amount of multiple refreshes in a pursuit camera photograph, so I've standardized on a 1/30sec shutter speed (as the fastest speed I use) for pursuit camera photography for this reason; the fact that impulse-driven images (e.g. CRT, LightBoost) remain sharp despite long camera exposure speeds, is a very accurate representation of what was seen by the human eye in tracking the moving object. Four refreshes at 120Hz gets captured in one photograph. It quite accurately captures the motion blur of sample-and-hold, pixel-persistence, ghosting, coronas, and whatever motion-clarity-affecting factors occur; photographically capturing an accurate equivalent of what the human eye saw.

Follow the proper pursuit camera usage of camera exposure setting capturing at least one full refresh cycle; pursuit camera tests for 60Hz show that small text blur to unreadability beyond approximately a tempo of 8 in all test patterns. The readability of the pixperan readability test in a properly-configured pursuit camera corresponds pretty well to readability by human eye. Not even the world's most accurate pursuit camera (configured to expose at least a full refresh cycle) can capture a photograph of sharp text out of a 60Hz sample-and-hold LCD with non-stroboscopic backlight, at Tempo 8 (text scrolling at 8 pixels step per frame, with the camera moving along with it, while capturing at a slow exposure speed) and beyond while running a chase camera sideways.

A pursuit camera (even at slow 1/15sec camera exposure; capturing multiple refreshes), perfectly tracking LightBoost scrolling text, keeps the text razor-sharp, without any motion blurring caused by long shutter speeds. You don't get that with a 60 Hz LCD.

In the near future, I am going to post new pursuit camera photos (not video) of 60Hz versus 120Hz versus 120Hz LightBoost (+/- 1pixel pursuit camera tracking accuracy, 1/20sec exposure for the 60Hz capture, and 1/30sec camera exposure for 120Hz capture). The 120Hz LightBoost pursuit camera photo is razor sharp (individual pixels perfectly resolvable with zero motion blur, despite using a slow 1/30sec shutter speed on while tracking the camera accurately and fast on a 960 pixels/second moving on-screen object), motion blur (or lack thereof) being WYSIWYG as seen by human eye.
Edited by mdrejhon - 3/22/13 at 12:15am
post #744 of 2929
I was just curious if these videos could translate. Even though I don't have thousands of dollars worth of equipment, proof is in the pudding for sure. It is such a big improvement in motion blur reduction that specialty equipment isn't needed to prove the point, except to get the manufacturer's onboard and you guys have done that exceptionally well. maybe these crude examples will help the nonbelievers who don't buy into all the expert talk. And for anyone who can't tell if its working. the pixperan test is night and day.
post #745 of 2929
XL2411T (aka VG248QE) was far, far clearer than my VG278HE. I found a very noticeable difference in motion clarity.


The XL2420T is not as good either but I haven't tested that personally.
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post #746 of 2929
no clue how I managed to double post
Edited by hamzatm - 3/22/13 at 12:21pm
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post #747 of 2929
Sweet, frame sequential works a treat on my S23A750D, but it keeps going into 2D mode when I alt tab out of games frown.gif
post #748 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post

Some people have worked around this by using the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, and then disabling all other 1920x1080 modes (e.g. disabling EDID extension block, disabling other refresh rates for 1920x1080) and including only the LightBoost enabled resoutions.

ToastyX, maker of Custom Resolution Utility, posted some new instructions, which is ready for beta testing (still requires nVidia). No registry files, no INF files, no emitters needed!

ToastyX — INSTRUCTIONS

For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) without installing inf or reg files. Download and install this utility first.
___
  1. The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you’re not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.

  2. If you don’t have a 3D emitter, use the “Edit…” button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn’t matter and can be set to whatever you want.

  3. Use the “Import…” button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
    I’ve included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don’t need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.

  4. Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.

  5. In the NVIDIA control panel, open the “Set up stereoscopic 3D” page, then click the “Run Setup Wizard” button. If the button isn’t there, uncheck “Enable stereoscopic 3D” and click the “Apply” button.

  6. In the setup wizard, click the “Next” button, then click “Next” again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don’t have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don’t need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
__

Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn’t unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again. If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.

I used the reg + inf from the start but I've followed this guide but it still disables in game on Need for Speed (its the only game where it does disable).

How do I reset everything so I can only use the CRU method?
post #749 of 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansive View Post

Nice panning, did you do that by hand?

You can tell the difference because when you keep up with the text it is mostly stationary, so even 60Hz LCDs can view that.

Yes, by hand. I did my best, but I think I was able to capture what I was goin for!
post #750 of 2929
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamipop View Post

Yes, by hand. I did my best, but I think I was able to capture what I was goin for!
It's important to note that the differences only truly reveal itself if if the video camera is using a sufficiently slow shutter speed (for each video frame) of at least the same length as one refresh cycle. This definitely happened for your YouTube videos; you should add one more pursuit camera test for the 60 Hz situation; the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz should reveal itself if your camera shutter is 1/60sec or slower. It would be lovely if videos embedded shutter speed data; since that helps.

(As we all love to know; moving a digital camera normally blurs badly at slow shutter speed; so having sharp image in a moving cameras that's running a slow shutter speeds -- is irreconcilable proof of motion blur elimination occuring.)
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