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Thinking of going to an FX6300 - Page 8

post #71 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

Single-core performance always remains relevant. Particularly in gaming. Even in games that can use more than one core (SC2 & Skyrim, for example), per-core performance often remains the most important thing that determines performance. Why is an overclocked fx-6300 better than a stock fx-6300? You improve per-core performance (aka single-core performance).

If that were true then wouldn't there be a large difference between Intel and AMD cpus in most games regardless of the resolution? Also, an overclocked FX-6300 is better than stock on synthetic benchmarks. But in gaming? Not from what I've seen, unless the game is coded to render from the cpu and not the gpu. Leaving the gpu only able to process AA and AF. That should be a better definition of what I consider cpu bound. By this definition, Skyrim is not cpu bound but Starcraft 2 is.
post #72 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

Learning to more effectively purchase our components. For instance, you also get much more performance out of GPU or a better monitor than you do out of a top-end motherboard. Yet you have a Crosshair V Formula. I'm NOT saying that was a bad purchase for you, but people can get better performance for the cost if we tailor computers to their desires & chosen programs. I'm guessing you updated your computer a few components at a time, but if you'd bought it all at once I'd have advised a cheaper motherboard + cpu, cooling, case, possibly sound card, and possibly RAM, but spending those savings on a larger 27" 2560x1440 monitor.
For someone buying now (not when you bought your components), I think they would have gotten better overall use out of their system - affording a larger, prettier monitor at very little cost in (gaming) performance.
The other point of learning all these little computer details: it's fun.

I don't buy my computer to get moar FPS. I buy computer parts and tweak them as a hobby, and to game on, and fold, and just browse the internet (sometimes at 5GHz.) I've now run 4 completely different generations of CPU on this board, Deneb Phenom II X4 945 (C2 topped out at 3.8GHz), Thuban Phenom II X4 960T (unlocked to X6 at 4.2GHz), Zambezi FX-8120 (4.8GHz stable), Piledriver FX-8350 (all kinds of fun, trying to get 5.7GHz on my water loop right now, check sig) and I'm due for a 5th when Steamroller comes out (no doubt I'm buying on release.) I've known several people regretted cheaping out on their mobo, and now I have 3 people who have gone back and bought the CHVF-Z after buying their cheap board like you suggest. So now they have paid for 2 boards. So don't take it the wrong way when I say that I disagree 100% with that idea. I mean seriously... 1 mobo for 5 different chips? That's like budgeting $40 for your mobo, per build, and getting the best you can get. Best piece of hardware I've ever bought without a doubt.

All I said was save the money on your CPU and get a better GPU. You're advocating paying more for the CPU which will net on the average game 5-10fps (games are pretty GPU bound these days,) over going from an 7870 to a 7950, which if it unlocks is a whole world of fps 20-30+ fps... And you look down on my purchase of a mobo a couple of years ago, still going strong with another upgrade coming? 1155 can't come close to saying that much.
post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

If that were true then wouldn't there be a large difference between Intel and AMD cpus in most games regardless of the resolution? Also, an overclocked FX-6300 is better than stock on synthetic benchmarks. But in gaming? Not from what I've seen, unless the game is coded to render from the cpu and not the gpu. Leaving the gpu only able to process AA and AF. That should be a better definition of what I consider cpu bound. By this definition, Skyrim is not cpu bound but Starcraft 2 is.

Well most games have such anemically small CPU requirements it doesnt' really matter which CPU you have. BF3 singleplayer, for instance, runs about as well on a stock Athlon II x4 as an overclocked i7-3770k. That doesn't mean we recommend the Athlon II x4 (though it's possible, I suppose!)

Truth is, people get big shiny new CPUs for the rare situations that come up once in awhile. No one wants to buy a hot-shot gaming computer with a 7970 and find out they CAN'T run the larger battles in Shogun: Total War or can only play the smaller multiplayer maps in BF3.
    
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post #74 of 127
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Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

Well most games have such anemically small CPU requirements it doesnt' really matter which CPU you have. BF3 singleplayer, for instance, runs about as well on a stock Athlon II x4 as an overclocked i7-3770k. That doesn't mean we recommend the Athlon II x4 (though it's possible, I suppose!)
Truth is, people get big shiny new CPUs for the rare situations that come up once in awhile. No one wants to buy a hot-shot gaming computer with a 7970 and find out they CAN'T run the larger battles in Shogun: Total War or can only play the smaller multiplayer maps in BF3.

So then... You shouldn't buy an Intel CPU just to play SC2 and Shogun better, amirite? Save the money and get a better GPU...
post #75 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0bius View Post

I don't buy my computer to get moar FPS. I buy computer parts and tweak them as a hobby, and to game on, and fold, and just browse the internet (sometimes at 5GHz.) I've now run 4 completely different generations of CPU on this board, Deneb Phenom II X4 945 (C2 topped out at 3.8GHz), Thuban Phenom II X4 960T (unlocked to X6 at 4.2GHz), Zambezi FX-8120 (4.8GHz stable), Piledriver FX-8350 (all kinds of fun, trying to get 5.7GHz on my water loop right now, check sig) and I'm due for a 5th when Steamroller comes out (no doubt I'm buying on release.) I've known several people regretted cheaping out on their mobo, and now I have 3 people who have gone back and bought the CHVF-Z after buying their cheap board like you suggest. So now they have paid for 2 boards. So don't take it the wrong way when I say that I disagree 100% with that idea. I mean seriously... 1 mobo for 5 different chips? That's like budgeting $40 for your mobo, per build, and getting the best you can get. Best piece of hardware I've ever bought without a doubt.
All I said was save the money on your CPU and get a better GPU. You're advocating paying more for the CPU which will net on the average game 5-10fps (games are pretty GPU bound these days,) over going from an 7870 to a 7950, which if it unlocks is a whole world of fps 20-30+ fps... And you look down on my purchase of a mobo a couple of years ago, still going strong with another upgrade coming? 1155 can't come close to saying that much.

Yes, you have a different usage pattern than most people (myself included). Most of us buy computers to run software, and couldn't give a crap about details other than running the software well (=MOAR FPS, on a big nice screen) without fans deafening us. For us, a cheapo mobo that runs the CPU we buy acceptably is the way to go. For you it would be a bad idea. So you made the right purchasing decisions for your usage pattern.

But people who overclock for fun usually don't need advice from the forum to decide which CPU to get next! So I tailor my recommendations to the less informed. Here on OCN, most of the less informed are looking for a kick-ass gaming rig.
    
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post #76 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0bius View Post

So then... You shouldn't buy an Intel CPU just to play SC2 and Shogun better, amirite? Save the money and get a better GPU...

Depends. If buying an Intel chip means spending more than you'd generally be right. But if the person in question plays SC2 & Shogun most of the time, you'd be wrong. And if there's an Intel system that doesn't cost more, you'd be wrong again.

Fact of the matter is, for many gaming usage patterns Intel has a more cost-effective option than AMD. With Vishera, this is less common for people willing to overclock, but the adage Intel = top end, AMD = cheap & cost-effective is often false.

For instance in this thread, before learning the OP wanted to overclock for fun, I suggested an Intel system that cost LESS than the AMD system he was considering - not one that cost more. So basically I did exactly what you said, taking away the brand names. I suggested an XXX CPU to save money (and thus get a better GPU, monitor, whatever).

We largely agree, except for the assumption that AMD is always going to be cheaper.
    
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post #77 of 127
lol
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post #78 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelConvert View Post

i will be playing WoW and FPS mostly (BF3 etc)... im not certain if wow can use 6 cores or not (i dont believe it does) but most FPS games wont use all 6... i may get into other types of games in the future but i havent played any of the total war series or other RTS. i do not use any programs that use multiple threads enough to make it a concern in my purchase.
my main concern was (for lack of better words), the FX6300 bottlenecking CFX 7870 or SLI GTX660 (or the 8800 or 760 series, assuming possible Q1 release) in a game like BF3.
As it has been brought up serveral times, i will not buy a CPU i cannot overclock and i am planning to use my H50 on my next build....

Let's digest this..

WoW goes to Intel, but FPS on an overclocked AMD Vishera chip doesn't fall that far behind (those unpredictable 1million man raids come into play and everybodies FPS hits the floor.) In BF3 a good unlocked hex core does have gains over the locked quads.

Shogun performance is apparently irrelevant...

SC2 counts as an RTS too...

FirstPersonShooters... BF3... His main concern...

Not locked... So we're comparing all AMD chips vs. the lowest unlocked Intel chip, the 3570k which is the most expensive of his options.

I see no reason to suggest an Intel CPU to him. He has no use for it and it will cost him a graphics upgrade.
post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

Not sure why anyone would recommend a locked Intel cpu.

Platform cost.

A locked i5 will typically clock to it's maximum possible speed bin, and run forever, on a 60 dollar motherboard, with the stock boxed cooler. Virtually no board in that price segment will handle even a moderate OC on an FX hex or octo core part without grave risk to it's VRMs.

I wouldn't recommend a locked i5 either, unless it was going to be paired with one of the least expensive boards available. In these cases, the price performance is pretty damn hard to rival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

I guarantee a overclocked 6300 will perform better than a locked current gen i5 in 90% of scenarios.

If it was OCed 6300 vs. Stock i5, then I would agree.

However, locked doesn't mean completely unoverclockable.

Even locked i5s can clock four multipliers above the highest turbo bin, and a 3.9-4GHz i5 quad is damn hard for a 6300 to beat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

i5-3470 $199 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115234
FX-6300 $139 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113286
Where did you come up with the extra $100? Both stock heatsinks suck so if the extra $100 is for cooling then I think it would make it more fair to add that onto the Intel setup as well.

The stock cooler is more than sufficient for a 4GHz i5 (which is the fastest any locked i5 can reliably be set to).

Also, a 4GHz i5 uses about 100w of power total, which is way less than a 4.6GHz + FX-6300, thus the board can be cheaper as well.

For the overclocked FX setup, I'd say you need to spend about 30-50 dollars more on board, and about 30-50 dollars more on cooling. This makes the final system cost very comparable.

The choice comes down to what is faster for the task at hand, four 3.8 to 4GHz Ivy bridge cores (no HT), or six 4.6-4.8GHz Vishera cores? For gaming, the Ivy is probably the better bet.

Now were I encoding, transcrypting, or virtualizing (and I certainly am, but the OP is not), then I would argue for the FX-6300.
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post #80 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0bius View Post

Let's digest this..
WoW goes to Intel, but FPS on an overclocked AMD Vishera chip doesn't fall that far behind (those unpredictable 1million man raids come into play and everybodies FPS hits the floor.) In BF3 a good unlocked hex core does have gains over the locked quads.
Shogun performance is apparently irrelevant...
SC2 counts as an RTS too...
FirstPersonShooters... BF3... His main concern...
Not locked... So we're comparing all AMD chips vs. the lowest unlocked Intel chip, the 3570k which is the most expensive of his options.
I see no reason to suggest an Intel CPU to him. He has no use for it and it will cost him a graphics upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

All of this being moot, of course, since the OP made it clear he wants to overclock for the fun of overclocking, which changes the valuation in favor of the fx-6300, after all.
    
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