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[MedXpress] China researchers link obesity to bacteria - Page 13

post #121 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonky Sausage View Post

Sorry, but you're flat out wrong. Being a Vegetarian or Vegan is not bad for you... The reason why most Vegetarians are healthier than meat eaters is not because they don't eat meat, it's because they are more likely to be careful about what they put in their mouth. You can be just as healthy as a meat eater if you put as much effort into eating healthy foods. It's just easier to do so when you are Vegetarian because you're actively thinking about what you eat and which nutrients you need to make up for that used to come from meat.
lgaGn.jpg

Yes being a vegan/vegetarian is bad for you. The only reason why they are healthier than most meat eaters, is most meat eaters eat w/e and don't eat healthy. But someone who eats a proper balanced diet will be healthier and stronger than the rest.

Aussies drink less soda... soda is something that should never be drank. I wonder if they smoke less too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post

Around 70% of Americans are overweight or obese. 1 in 10 Americans are depressed. There's an overlap there that your hypothesis doesn't explain, yet the lazy, gluttonous culture we've evolved in this country does.
When half the world is starving, I don't have any sympathy for somebody that becomes depressed because they chose eat too many snack cakes in the first place.

Except depression is something that would completely deprive a person of the ability to ever change their ways. And are you randomly going to pick who got depressed first or who ate and got fat first to decide who to feel sorry for? Well that kid has cancer, normally I would feel sorry for them, but they are also fat, so they got what they had coming. Thats your logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGroove View Post

Someone said earlier that sugar can be as addictive as cocaine, and that is true.

Anything can be addictive to addictive personalities, but I highly doubt sugar is addictive as cocaine to the average person. Its either based on some sort of mental issue or addictive personality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Don't even need to buy in bulk... brown rice and lentils are less than $1/lb. Eating healthy is actually cheaper if you cook your own meals. Often tastier too.

Thats not healthy, eating healthy would be minimal grains and some beans. You need high quality meat and fresh fruits and vegetables and organic milks and fitlered water (berkey etc) which are very expensive. A head of lettuce costs more than a hamburger (and I mean a cheap garbage hamburger with filler). Even though brown rice is better than white rice, none of that is needed for the average sedentary person.

What people don't understand is nutrition density is key, you need to have as much nutrition in the calories you eat, and eating crap or grains/breads don't give you those. Sure you can get by eating "ok" with brown rice or pref oats (steelcut oats ftw) but its not optimal. Most breads/grain are bleached or treated or otherwise destroyed nutritionally and they they readd nutrients to it, which arent absorbed as well by the body. Thats why anyone who lifts has to be extremely careful about what calories they ingest, sure strength trainers and power lifters can eat dirty but thats because they burn so many calories, like 3000-4000 calories while the daily rec intake is 2000 (which is too high for women and too low for men). Thats why those marathon or triathalon or swimmers can eat a ton of calories because they just need energy, not nutrition (they get nutrition first though, then make sure they have enough energy).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

All that writing about falsehoods and you didn't even try to back any of it up.
http://examine.com/supplements/Alcohol/

You are assuming Im arguing. Im not. Im giving out free information. Go do your own research.
post #122 of 203
More of the 'vegan/vegitarian' is bad from you stuff... interesting since I know, and have known people in both of those groups for the past 20 years living that lifestyle. EVERY single person I know of in that group is not only still alive, some being well over 50 something now, but they're healthier than most people in my age group (mid-20's). I also know of and talk to a few vegetarians around the world, and have frequented vegetarian food blogs during my time researching it on whether to make the switch or not... there is nothing wrong with it or unhealthy about it if you do it right. That's saying the same of a 'normal' omnivour style diet really... too much red meat can be bad. Too much concentrated soy/etc can be bad. Thing is... vegan/vegetarian (huge difference btw...) doesn't rely on soy for their nutrients and can easily live on a soy moderate diet. All of the acclaimed empyrical evidence to support non-meat eating lifestyles are 'bad' for you, have almost a 2:1 rate of studies supporting non-meat eating diets.
I eat mostly lean meat when i eat it, and try to take in a lot of fish and veggies. We have been cutting out bleached breads too and pay ~$1 more for better bread... worth it, and it tastes better. Heck, if i were to cut out meat entirely, i'd be fine on fish alone... since for some reason fish isn't considered meat by a lot of groups... rolleyes.gif Either way, vegetarian lifestyles aren't inherently any more bad/dangerous that any other diet.


As for the steel cut outs, take some tuna with egg, oats, and bread crumbs (panko work great..) and mix it all up with whatever else you want and form patties... BOOM, instant tuna burgers! Taste great and other fish can be substituted, and lots can be added to the mix as well. Usually I add some chopped bell pepper and chili powder, with a couple cracks of black pepper and lime juice. biggrin.gif Fairly healthy, high in protein, and very filling (thanks oats thumb.gif). It also makes a ton, so one standard can of tuna can easily feed myself and two daughters each a well portioned burger (wife won't eat it lol... she hates fish). Use salmon and lemon juice as an alternative, tastes just as great.
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post #123 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzac View Post

I dont believe this bacteria crap. Science or not.. likes its been said.. its just another excuse for fatties to try and validate poor choices.

Just because it's true doesn't mean it's an excuse. It's been irrefutably demonstrated to be true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

Except depression is something that would completely deprive a person of the ability to ever change their ways. And are you randomly going to pick who got depressed first or who ate and got fat first to decide who to feel sorry for? Well that kid has cancer, normally I would feel sorry for them, but they are also fat, so they got what they had coming. Thats your logic.

If a causal link can be established between their poor choices and the result, no, I would have no sympathy. I don't feel bad for people that go tanning all the time and end up with skin cancer.
    
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post #124 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzac View Post

Im 6'2 Ive just lost 70lbs. 253 to 185, around 12% now. Its calories in vs calories out for sure. Track them and youre golden. Hell you dont even have to exersize if you dont want to.. just expect slower results. 500 cal deficit a day = 2lbs of weight loss a week. It worked for me. and all i do is study and play games. Admittedly i went for power walks and occasionally lifted weights but i got over that fast. Lost my last 10lbs by just eating under maintenance. I dont believe this bacteria crap. Science or not.. likes its been said.. its just another excuse for fatties to try and validate poor choices.

Agree! I was 211lbs before school started (end of August) and decided I had to lose weight. I simply started eating healthy and little( no junk or processed food). Now I am 152lbs!!! My friends and family are worried for my health because I dropped so much weight in little time. I have absolutely never touched a weight or worked out... LOL. Usually I am always sitting (at the office/school/work) I am always infront of a pc, but I am very busy ! smile.gif
By the way I am 6'0 tall.
post #125 of 203
eat all you want and exercise everyday.. at least an hour a day. muscle training is my favorite because I literally lift for an hour, feel great, and never have to worry about what I eat. Muscle burns calories 24/7. And you need a high-intake to sustain your mass the bigger you get anyway. It's a win-win.
    
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post #126 of 203
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Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

More of the 'vegan/vegitarian' is bad from you stuff... interesting since I know.

Sorry but humans are meat eaters. People who starve themselves live longer as well, but its not healthy to starve oneself, and I don't mean fasting by choice either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post

Just because it's true doesn't mean it's an excuse. It's been irrefutably demonstrated to be true.
If a causal link can be established between their poor choices and the result, no, I would have no sympathy. I don't feel bad for people that go tanning all the time and end up with skin cancer.

Maybe you should actually look up what depression is before saying stupid things.
post #127 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

Sorry but humans are meat eaters.

In all actuality the human body is designed much more like an herbivores than a carnivore. Even in medical school they have taught us this.

http://www.waoy.org/26.html

I know that site doesn't look credible, but I've heard these exact facts from many PhD and MD's alike.
    
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post #128 of 203
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Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

Sorry but humans are meat eaters.

Actually, humans are omnivores... we eat meat and plant material for food. We wouldn't have so many grinding teeth if we were meant solely for meat consumption. This is taught in elementary school where I live. I remember learning about it back when they taught us about teeth, and then it goes on and on from there well into biology classes and history.

And if all these things that 'arent healthy' for people make people live longer... maybe we should all be a bit more unhealthy?
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post #129 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

Maybe you should actually look up what depression is before saying stupid things.

Any maybe you should try to understand what I'm saying before making rash responses. 70% of Americans are overweight. 10% have depression. Most cases of obesity have no correlation with depression. You're putting words in my mouth. I never said depression can't cause weight gain. All I'm saying is that most have no legitimate cause and are merely due to laziness.
Edited by aroc91 - 12/26/12 at 10:41am
    
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post #130 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicsphere View Post

In all actuality the human body is designed much more like an herbivores than a carnivore. Even in medical school they have taught us this.
http://www.waoy.org/26.html
I know that site doesn't look credible, but I've heard these exact facts from many PhD and MD's alike.

Not quite, we have canine teeth which generally found in animals that eat meat. Also, we have a shorter stomach than most herbivores, so it's generally thought we are an omnivore. Med school teaches you one thing but the general science community is still in a debate with the leading debate being we are omnivores due to some outstanding facts.

Oh and that article is hogwash from point 1. We have pointed teeth from birth, canines and our front teeth. Not to mention the molars behind the canines are also pointed, indicating they are used in conjunction with the canines. Time might have shrank our canines, but shape remains. As well as it's been obvious the amount of teeth we have has also changed. Probably even the type over the years.

The PH reference is also wrong, the humans stomach can reach levels of 1-2 during digestion. Possibly even lower depending on the human, which is incredibly acidic.

Stomach size is wrong in that article, they have examples of omnivores with the same percent size as us. Making that point NULL.

Due to me already stating certain points as being invalid, I'm going to assume others are as well. I can't talk for all of them, as a few might have merit. However that doesn't mean anything at all because we share the same similarities as other omnivores that have been found in the wild. So I would make it a point not to share that article again as somebody more versed than me could make a fool of you even easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

Actually, humans are omnivores... we eat meat and plant material for food. We wouldn't have so many grinding teeth if we were meant solely for meat consumption. This is taught in elementary school where I live. I remember learning about it back when they taught us about teeth, and then it goes on and on from there well into biology classes and history.
And if all these things that 'arent healthy' for people make people live longer... maybe we should all be a bit more unhealthy?

While you are correct about the general consensus about us being omnivores it isn't about our grinding teeth. We have canines which I as stated above, are generally found in animals that eat meat as stated. Now I'm pretty sure it is found in some omnivores, given us as a good example but it's the tooth you would want to point out. Not to mention stomach digestion lengh, while our intestines length (percent) vs our size is larger than predators it is smaller than herbivores. The other big clue. [edit] To forsake being reamed for that statement. They do have some herbivores that share similar lengths. However we have found some omnivores that share it the same, so it's still kind of a misleading debate. I wouldn't make it a point to have that your major key player. I've stated other key factors above about that poorly written article. So if you want me to make a more versed debate I can but I don't think it is required. I'm fully equipped to defend my views.

There is one other major factor that plays, we require protein on such a high intake that it's thought without modern day farming techniques we couldn't survive without meat. I'm talking about major protein alternatives, such as soy and other outlets. On many continents that wouldn't be possible until today, so it's generally thought we had to eat meat to survive.

I hate this debate because it's stupid. Everyone uses out dated information or personalized facts, which pisses me off. I know not everyone understands canine teeth importance, the size of the intestines vs mass. The thing is, if you don't honestly have any solid medical/science facts that back it up please don't push either side.
Edited by mushroomboy - 12/26/12 at 10:46am
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