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[MedXpress] China researchers link obesity to bacteria - Page 3

post #21 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post

While I'm not familiar with studies about "intermittent fasting," any studies and advice I've ever read or heard said exactly what I said: that fewer meals, especially one meal, a day leads to a slowing of a person's metabolism. I think that's pretty widely accepted. I'll read up on what you mentioned, but I'm still going to believe that for now.
As for the second portion of your post, all you did was corroborate exactly what I said. What you originally said was flawed because you used intake as an equal to usage. Two people can be the same starting weight and do the same activities each day, but the two will not stay the same weight if you put them on identical diets. Estimating calories to match the activity of a person gives a bit of a ballpark, but it's in no way an exact science. There are other processes going on within the body that vary by genetics and perhaps other factors that determine a person's metabolism and absorption.
But you're absolutely right now. The "quantity of energy" consumed is dependent on the individual.
I don't understand why you would put two different people on an identical diet, though. I definitely never said that should be done. I think there's some kind of misunderstanding here, because I'm not really sure what your argument is. I agree that two people, given an identical diet, would not necessarily have the same results. A male who is 6 foot 6 at 100kg will probably not gain weight by eating 2000 calories a day. A female who is 5 foot 4 at 50kg will probably gain weight eating 2000 calories a day. They each have different energy requirements.

Here's essentially what I said in my first post, re-worded. Maybe you interpreted it differently.

It's always a matter of calories in vs calories out. The quantity of "calories out" is completely dependent on the individual, as you said. You can measure your BMR with decent accuracy by looking at your weight, body fat percentage, gender, age and height. Once you get an estimate, along with your total energy expenditure by looking at activity levels, you count calories for a single week, aiming for a certain amount each day depending on your goals. If you put on weight, the calories you consumed for that week was higher than your total energy expenditure, and so-on.

Without some serious medical equipment, I don't think you can find your true BMR/total energy expenditure without some trial and error with calorie counting along with some estimates. But it's easy enough to do it so that you can lose fat easily and consistently.

edit: The idea that people should have many small meals each day is pretty widespread. A lot of people I know try and follow this. It doesn't do anything significant though, and proper scientific research backs this up. Conventional wisdom like this is based on old, outdated ideas and knowledge. There are some positives for having fewer meals, and there might be some positives for having more frequent meals, but in the end it's not that significant.
Edited by Arnotts - 12/23/12 at 9:08am
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post #22 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnotts View Post

A male who is 6 foot 6 at 100kg will probably not gain weight by eating 2000 calories a day. A female who is 5 foot 4 at 50kg will probably gain weight eating 2000 calories a day. They each have different energy requirements.

In the example I keep mentioning, the people are the same weight, and we can make them the same height for that matter.

As for the rest, I'll just have to take your word for it. Apparently you know something most don't.

People like to assign exact caloric burn rates for certain activities, and then they add all those activities up to get a ballpark as you mention. The fact is that people can burn more or fewer calories at a resting state depending on a few factors. Us not being able to measure this without the use of expensive medical equipment does nothing but show this is true. You can't tell how many calories a person needs simply by their BMR and what their activities will be. It can get you into a very loose ballpark, but you have to feel it out from there, as you say.

You're shooting way past what my original comment was referring to though. I was just commenting on the fact that you originally mentioned calories in equating to whether or not a person will lose weight, stay the same, or gain weight. I was saying that not everyone uses calories at the same rate at a resting state, which most people seem to be at most of the time. You can have two people who are the same starting weight, height, and BMR, feed them identical diets, and they quite possibly will respond differently as far as changes in weight go. There are underlying processes that cause that gray area in the "trial and error" phase of fine tuning the intake.
Edited by Kaldari - 12/23/12 at 9:29am
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post #23 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by HK_47 View Post

I'm not on any specific diet but I simply can't afford a lot of food. I only eat one meal per day, and somehow manage to stay 20-30lbs overweight.
If you want to lose some weight without eating less, one good idea is to reduce your sugar consumption to 30grams or less per day (for reference there are 39g of sugar in a 12 oz can of American formula coke). Refined sugar makes you hungry and messes with your endocrine system. If you read the nutrition labels on foods you can see which foods have added sugar & how much. Restrict your 30 grams of sugar to fresh/dried fruits and you're good to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnotts View Post

It's always a matter of calories in vs calories out.

Sugar addiction is a much overlooked aspect of obesity in modern societies. Sugar is as addictive as cocaine, and through obesity probably kills more people per year than cocaine. [1] Corn syrup gets processed in your liver in a similar fashion as alcohol, and that additional liver load makes it harder for your body to properly process fats which, also contributing to obesity. [2] Anyone seriously trying to lose weight should take note of these facts. 2000 calories of a healthy, varied diet is in practice very different from 2000 calories of sugar/hfcs and hydrogenated oils. What you eat matters just as much as the calorie count.

[1] http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/researcher-sugar-addictive-cocaine-obesity-diabetes-cancer-heart-disease-article-1.1054419

[2] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322204628.htm
Edited by TehStone - 12/23/12 at 9:37am
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post #24 of 203
The comment in the source is exactly right. Your diet has just as much of an effect on your gut flora as your gut flora does on your nutrient absorption.

http://www.nature.com/ismej/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ismej2012153a.html
Quote:
The endotoxin-producing Enterobacter decreased in relative abundance from 35% of the volunteer’s gut bacteria to non-detectable, during which time the volunteer lost 51.4 kg of 174.8 kg initial weight and recovered from hyperglycemia and hypertension after 23 weeks on a diet of whole grains, traditional Chinese medicinal foods and prebiotics.

Controlling caloric intake and taking probiotics to establish a balanced flora would probably remediate the obesity epidemic within a year. Compliance is the only issue. Although it has been demonstrated that gut flora does have an effect, your gut flora is largely determined by your actions anyway, so it can't be used as an excuse. Eat right and exercise.

TehStone is also right. We weren't meant to eat as many refined carbohydrates as we do.
    
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post #25 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnotts View Post

It's always a matter of calories in vs calories out.
In the end, this is what it comes down to. There will always be other factors, but it's a simple, effective explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by venom55520 View Post

basically you eat about 1200 calories worth of protein and nothing else
Sounds like a bad idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation
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post #26 of 203
I'm going to assume there is a stupid amount of bro-science in this topic already. If you want to get healthy go see a nutritionist or dietician and then start working out period. Listening to advice on the internet is the worst thing you can do for your health 90% of the time.
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post #27 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnotts View Post

It's always a matter of calories in vs calories out.
In the end, this is what it comes down to. There will always be other factors, but it's a simple, effective explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by venom55520 View Post

basically you eat about 1200 calories worth of protein and nothing else
Sounds like a bad idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation


He also states tat he tales supplements and other stuff so this doesn't happen.
Protein is a very slow burning energy compared to sugar so the same Kj intake will last much much longer.
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post #28 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Amik Vase View Post

Like most things in life the best way to get things done is hard work, so get outside if you want to lose weight fatties.

I personally believe there is a MAJOR psychological factor to weight loss. Habits are hard to break and even harder for some personalities. Some disorders like depression can kill your motivation. This is why it is important to not call people fatties wink.gif


Positive encouragement will always be better than "DE-constructive" criticism. Don't believe me go try it on your mom redface.gif

Hey mom you look Fat today.... mad.gif
(As a coping mechanism, some may even eat more after this.)

So lets not be trolls and call people Fatties on the interwebs, we all have our demons.
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post #29 of 203
There is nothing wrong with calling overweight people fatties, if they don't want to be called it then they should lose weight. At the end of the day I'm paying for their healthcare for being so fat so I get to complain about their health issues.
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post #30 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Amik Vase View Post

There is nothing wrong with calling overweight people fatties, if they don't want to be called it then they should lose weight. At the end of the day I'm paying for their healthcare for being so fat so I get to complain about their health issues.

Must suck to be so perfect.

Don't worry, i know how it feels.

Why stop at mocking overweight people though, you could also think up some clever name for those who suffer with anorexia as well - just sayin. It's a cheap shot either way. Way i see it, there is no excuse to be a rude obnoxious turd because someone else has a problem. A bit of courtesy is more productive. Yes, lets mock the fat people, some of whome probably eat for emotional support, and who likely eat so much because of peoples attitudes in the first place.

Being british, *I* also pay for their healthcare, but it's a healthcare not worth paying for in the first place. If it was as good as people say, my father would have gotten the treatment he deserves with far less hassle, being a taxpayer and a grafter all his life, and there would be less overweight people to complain about if they were properly educated.

And no, i'm not overweight.
Edited by Thingamajig - 12/23/12 at 12:30pm
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