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post #251 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Just to hijack slightly



What does this mean? The MKII are my new ones.

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/about-headphone-measurements.php

What that means is that the K240 MKII have a greater emphasis on bass (sub 200 frequency), slightly more emphasis on mids, and a higher peak for more discernible highs and less valleys when compared to the EH350. Frequency response graphs give you an idea of whether or not a headphone is considered bassy, bright, or flat. It also means that the EH350 can extend to higher trebles than your K240, though whether or not you can hear that is debatable.

It is important to note that while frequency response graphs give you a general idea of what to expect, there are other factors that go into how the headphones actually sound. You can have very similar frequency responses but still have headphones sound different.
Edited by OC'ing Noob - 1/16/13 at 9:16am
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post #252 of 285
I've got a pair of Shure SRH440's that will run circles around any model of Beats out there, and the 440's cost $99 (or less). The sound reproduction of those cans is spot on, and the build quality is phenominal. The problem is that most normal people seem to think that overpowered bass is the way to go. I used to be like that, and then I got a real pair of ears. The detail difference between "bass boost" and "clear highs, mids, and lows" is something that has to be heard to be understood. Most people that I ask about why they bought Beats headphones say they like they like the way they look and sound. A few of them, I've gotten them to listen to some Sennheiser's or AT M50's, and 90% of the time, I get the same response: WOAH!!! REALLY?!?!?! HOW MUCH DO THESE COST?!?!?!? Then I get to tell them that they cost less than the set of beats they are wearing. It's an eye opening experience for a lot of them.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there are better headphones than Beats, but pop culture will rule most of the time. It's just sad that a lot of people buy into the marketing hype so easily.


EDIT: I work at a sound shop presently. I get to hear all of the goodies. thumb.gif
Edited by Mad Pistol - 1/16/13 at 9:24am
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post #253 of 285
Another thing about frequency response graphs, you can use them to typically identify poor headphones, but you cannot use them to define good/great headphones, because once sound quality reaches a certain level, it becomes subjective depending on personal tastes as well as there being other factors that further defines what sound is.
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post #254 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Another thing about frequency response graphs, you can use them to typically identify poor headphones, but you cannot use them to define good/great headphones, because once sound quality reaches a certain level, it becomes subjective depending on personal tastes as well as there being other factors that further defines what sound is.

Absolute drivel. The frequency graph will give a slight indication of how they will fair, but will offer absolutely no indication of the quality of that sound regardless of its tonal aspects.
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post #255 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrous View Post

Absolute drivel. The frequency graph will give a slight indication of how they will fair, but will offer absolutely no indication of the quality of that sound regardless of its tonal aspects.

Yes and no. I think saying that it's "Absolute drivel" is a little harsh.

Can you make a set of cans that would have flat response and yet still sound bad? Honestly, I'm not sure why any company would go through the time and effort to do such a thing.

First of all, those looking for flat response phones are audiophiles or enthusiasts with specific tastes. This means that they are going to be looking for something that is the entire package, not just one aspect. Second, it costs a company money to develop a set of cans with that sort of frequency response, so if the headphones don't sell to their target audience, what's the point in developing them in the first place?

So no, it isn't drivel. While you do make a point, the scenario that you propose is one that I have never seen happen in this industry. If a set of cans has great response, the sound quality is also going to be exceptional.
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post #256 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrous View Post

Absolute drivel. The frequency graph will give a slight indication of how they will fair, but will offer absolutely no indication of the quality of that sound regardless of its tonal aspects.

My personal opinion is that you are completely wrong, but that doesn't surprise me considering our other opinions in this thread have greatly differed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Yes and no. I think saying that it's "Absolute drivel" is a little harsh.

Can you make a set of cans that would have flat response and yet still sound bad? Honestly, I'm not sure why any company would go through the time an effort to do such a thing.

First of all, those looking for flat response phones are audiophiles or enthusiasts with specific tastes. This means that they are going to be looking for something that is the entire package, not just one aspect. Second, it costs a company money to develop a set of cans with that sort of frequency response, so if the headphones don't sell to their target audience, what's the point in developing them in the first place?

So no, it isn't drivel. While you do make a point, the scenario that you propose is one that I have never seen happen in this industry. If a set of cans has great response, the sound quality is also going to be exceptional.

Ok, well that scenario would prove my point wrong, but like Pistol said, this is not a scenario one expects to see when it comes to headphones. With FR graphs, you can determine a lot of factors that can help you figure out if a headphones will sound bad. Now is it always the case? No, there are always exceptions and that is why we have subjective testing.
Edited by OC'ing Noob - 1/16/13 at 9:44am
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post #257 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/about-headphone-measurements.php

What that means is that the K240 MKII have a greater emphasis on bass (sub 200 frequency), slightly more emphasis on mids, and a higher peak for more discernible highs and less valleys when compared to the EH350. Frequency response graphs give you an idea of whether or not a headphone is considered bassy, bright, or flat. It also means that the EH350 can extend to higher trebles than your K240, though whether or not you can hear that is debatable.

It is important to note that while frequency response graphs give you a general idea of what to expect, there are other factors that go into how the headphones actually sound. You can have very similar frequency responses but still have headphones sound different.

That would explain why I touched the lows into the negatives a little on the EQ, but I haven't touched the highs.

I'm looking for a good guide to EQ my headphones. I made a post on here a while ago, but it got no replies.
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post #258 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

So no, it isn't drivel. While you do make a point, the scenario that you propose is one that I have never seen happen in this industry. If a set of cans has great response, the sound quality is also going to be exceptional.

Well it's simply not true, sorry to tell you. Have you ever listened to headphones and thought "Wow, that drum sounds far more realistic" or anything like that? That kind of thing is 100% down to the drive unit used, and is non-indicative of the frequency response of the headphones. Headphones can measure totally find and yet sound more closed off and boomy than other headphones.

Shure SE215s measure better on a frequency graph than Sennheiser ie8s, yet the ie8s sound far more realistic because they have higher quality drive units in them. Tonality is a bi-product of other factors.

And given that most headphone companies don't make their own drive units, they don't 'try' to get the frequency as flat as possible at all, they just make the drive unit work well in the chassis they use it in. High quality drive unit = realistic sounding headphone, it's that simple. Often there will be ones that measure flatter but don't sound as good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

My personal opinion is that you are completely wrong, but that doesn't surprise me considering our other opinions in this thread have greatly differed.

Look at cheap studio monitors. They have a relatively flat frequency response, yet sound boxy and boomy. Frequency response doesn't honestly show that much at all other than a vague hint at tonality. Some of the best and most realistic loudspeakers ever created don't measure that well on a graph (think B&W Nautilus lines etc).
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post #259 of 285
Just to throw some fuel on the fire, here are the beats graph compared with some other popular good sounding headphones.

Nobody calls those Shures overly bassy and yet although they are far more accurate than the Beats, they measure FAR worse.

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post #260 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monstrous View Post

Well it's simply not true, sorry to tell you. Have you ever listened to headphones and thought "Wow, that drum sounds far more realistic" or anything like that? That kind of thing is 100% down to the drive unit used, and is non-indicative of the frequency response of the headphones. Headphones can measure totally find and yet sound more closed off and boomy than other headphones.

Shure SE215s measure better on a frequency graph than Sennheiser ie8s, yet the ie8s sound far more realistic because they have higher quality drive units in them. Tonality is a bi-product of other factors.

And given that most headphone companies don't make their own drive units, they don't 'try' to get the frequency as flat as possible at all, they just make the drive unit work well in the chassis they use it in. High quality drive unit = realistic sounding headphone, it's that simple. Often there will be ones that measure flatter but don't sound as good.

Without getting into an argument with you, I work in a sound shop presently. I've listened to many audiophile-grade products, and while they all have their strength's and weaknesses, I've found that that all of the products are priced according to what they are able to produce. I have yet to run into a set of cans that sound "bad" and have a flat response signature. Yes, I have heard the phenomena that you describe with studio monitors. However, most of the monitors that I've heard that sound "boomy" by your description cost under $150 for a pair. That's the same price retail as a set of Audio Technica ATH-M50's, which by many is considered a standard in entry-level audiophile monitoring headphones. If you jump the price a little on the studio monitors, the boomy sound disappears usually and is replaced by crisp tones in the high, mid, and low-end of the sound spectrum.

When it comes to audiophile grade equipment from companies like Shure, AT, Sennheiser, Behringer, and other big names (Monster is not one of them, btw), you get what you pay for 9 out of 10 times. There will always be products that are better for different uses, but I think arguing that response and clarity don't go hand in hand isn't the best way to approach an outlook on audiphile-grade products. Those companies know their audience, and they make products that cater to their needs. It is an exact science to them.


EDIT: in response to your previous post, I think comparing a good set of Shure studio monitoring headphones to a set of Beats is an insult to audiophiles everywhere. Shure's products are designed to produce a flat and well rounded sound signature, while Beats are designed to produce overpowering highs and lows with very little attention to detail. Apples vs. Oranges
Edited by Mad Pistol - 1/16/13 at 10:09am
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