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[Xbitlabs]Intel’s Haswell to Feature Secrete Weapon: Integrated Voltage Regulator. - Page 12

post #111 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Thanks for the links.
Actually, from these slides it looks like lower input voltage is helping efficiency.
I didn't see the input voltage listed in your first link, but I'm assuming it was +12v because of the standard 24+8 pin ATX+EPS connectors shown on the test setup. However, in the second set of slides page 3 and 11 clearly state they are using 3.3v input, yet 6%+ higher efficiency.
Maybe there will be some more staging going on in Haswell, maybe some sort of external VRM will be retained, maybe some breakthrough has given them good efficiency with 12v, or maybe they will simply settle for a few percent lower efficiency.
The only possibility I don't see is requiring PSUs to deliver more 3.3v power. That would require a pretty dramatic market shift. I know this has happened before, but that was from 5v to 12v, and was advantageous to PSU makers, as well as happening when the total market was smaller.
I guess time will tell.
The first one was 2.4v, orange text on page 24. I'm sure you're right about ATX/EPS 12v sticking around, and I don't see any reason to do the final step down in the PSU. Most new PSUs are basically a 12v supply with everything else DC-DC anyway.
post #112 of 163
What's your point, CL3P20? It's still a DC-DC VRM, and very definitely NOT a control circuit for power phases on the mobo. More importantly, it's a prototype, not a production part. They can certainly design something similar that runs on a different input voltage.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 12/28/12 at 11:32pm
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post #113 of 163

it is dc-dc vrm and is control circuit for power phases.. which are on mobo PCB.. and voltages.. well those are something typically set in a BIOS..

post #114 of 163
Notice nearly every post crying foul about how Intel will use this to hurt overclockers.... is followed by an AMD rig in the signature block below it.

Hmmm... interesting.
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post #115 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purger View Post

Notice nearly every post crying foul about how Intel will use this to hurt overclockers.... is followed by an AMD rig in the signature block below it.

Hmmm... interesting.

Or not. Watch, if a thread comes up that directly states that it'll be people on either side of the fence who say it, even if it is obviously incorrect.
    
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post #116 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by CL3P20 View Post

it is dc-dc vrm and is control circuit for power phases.. which are on mobo PCB.. and voltages.. well those are something typically set in a BIOS..
Are you even paying attention? The only power phases it controls are the ones inside it. There's no feedback to VRM components on the mobo. If this did control the power phases on the motherboard, the switching frequency would be much lower, probably under 1Mhz. The switching frequency has to be higher because the inductors are so much smaller.
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post #117 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purger View Post

Notice nearly every post crying foul about how Intel will use this to hurt overclockers.... is followed by an AMD rig in the signature block below it.
Hmmm... interesting.

This post is largely irrelevant as we are talking about circuit integration that has nothing to do with performance; something I and other AMD followers have been long complaining about.

@TranquilTempest: From the article I understood that what Intel's going to do is bulk the transistors and the drivers inside the chip, leaving the inductors and the capacitors outside the chip (for obvious space reasons).

If they are pursuing efficiency, I don't think there's MOSFETs on the market with low enough switching losses to justify switching at gigahertz speeds needed to reduce the inductors to a mease wire and the capacitors to a mere ceramic SMD 0.5x1mm package soldered on the back of the processor.

They could very well develop them, but it wouldn't be of as much value than investing that money into making the actual processor better.
   
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post #118 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

This post is largely irrelevant as we are talking about circuit integration that has nothing to do with performance; something I and other AMD followers have been long complaining about.
@TranquilTempest: From the article I understood that what Intel's going to do is bulk the transistors and the drivers inside the chip, leaving the inductors and the capacitors outside the chip (for obvious space reasons).
If they are pursuing efficiency, I don't think there's MOSFETs on the market with low enough switching losses to justify switching at gigahertz speeds needed to reduce the inductors to a mease wire and the capacitors to a mere ceramic SMD 0.5x1mm package soldered on the back of the processor.
They could very well develop them, but it wouldn't be of as much value than investing that money into making the actual processor better.
That's what I thought at first, but then I saw the detail on this:
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post #119 of 163
There were motherboards with digital VRM-s made.If you take a look at them you will notice no chocks.The purpose of the chocks is to remove noise from the power supply ,nothing more.They can be very well simulated into silicon if needed.So the assumption that a VRM can t be fully included on the CPU , just because they can t put the inductors (as you see them on most boards) in there is wrong.

But all the people with high hopes from this "secret weapon" will have the chance to see this "revolutionary" stuff at work soon.You wont be happy.

In the mean time on X-bit there is the chart with the new Intel models ,9 and many seem to be intended for non socket usage smile.gif
   
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post #120 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post

This new VRM stuff will allow Intel to do only one thing properly , to CONTROL the market segments.
We can all say bye overclocking for the cheaper chips as this new VRM will come along the socketless strategy.
Boys with money will get their hands on specific chip ranges while the other ones will use the integrated approach.
The future will show us how Intel will make even more money out of their fans.
Of course the VRM integration into the chip will limit the overclocking at least with the first generation.
Those internal thermal/current protections will kick in and limit overclocking in quite a large margin.

This i can believe.

I've already seen GPU overclocking change from BIOS flashing to software based tools such as MSI and TRIXX - which i hate. I don't think i havn't ever had a bug-free experience with such software, or at least it interfering with games. The bugs were sometimes bad enough to cause BSOD's, like when Punkbuster would if MSI was running. I prefered flashing, in all honesty. Not once did i ever brick a card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

I don't care about overclocking. I just want a fast, low power consumption processor that can run games at my desired framerate.

So you don't care that you could get more frames by pushing it further? You'd rather have to invest in new technology each time you hit some sort of bottleneck? It's pretty satisfying pushing a system to it's limits, i'd like to keep that and i wouldn't want to have to pay for overclockable edition components just to have fun.

In the end, it's this attitude of yours that causes many consumers to pay more for less.
Edited by Thingamajig - 12/29/12 at 4:34am
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