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[Xbitlabs]Intel’s Haswell to Feature Secrete Weapon: Integrated Voltage Regulator. - Page 7

post #61 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Either way, you still have to deliver the WATTAGE to the CPU through the pins ... be it 250A at a lower voltage or 32A at a higher voltage.

Wattage in that context doesn't matter since you aren't dissipating that power in the pins. Current dictates conductor size, not power. (This explanation is simplistic but sufficient for the purposes needed here.)
post #62 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Higher voltage/ lower current means less heat loss to Resistive loss in the conductor= Resistance*Current^2

Yes, but since you have to once again lower the 12V back down to a usable voltage, you will generate more heat from the DC/DC converter ... inside an area that already gets overly hot.
post #63 of 163
Definitely power regulation will be more precise.

But to me, integrating VRMs means increasing difficulty to cool the processor. It may not be good for overclocking UNLESS it creates far less waste heat. The conversion efficiency of the VRMs used on current high quality motherboards is about 90%-95% with switching frequency of less than 1MHz, and they are buck type switching DC converter. With a much higher switching frequency (30-140Mhz), it could possibly boost the efficiency. Hopefully it's true. But keep in mind the inductor(choke) is now on the chip (ring-coupled inductor), too, so the LC reservoir could be much smaller which requires higher switching frequency.

The mosfets will be definitely on-chip. Anyone knows if Intel will keep using external caps and chokes?
Edited by foxrena - 12/28/12 at 10:19am
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post #64 of 163
Motherboards of the future will just be a PCB of sockets and plugs...
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post #65 of 163
I though 22nm Ivy Bridge ran hot at higher voltages due to TIM under IHS and 3d gate (trigate?) tech.
They are taking a hot (in the literal sense) litography and making it hotter by adding VRM's. I don't see how this could help overclocking under conventional cooling.
Like Skylit, I would be satisfied with a fast, low power CPU that can produce my desired frame rate in games. However from an overclocking standpoint, the thermal footprint could prove detrimental to high OC's.

BUT

As per Jacob from Intel who is doing the Reddit AMA:

"What do you usually do with your system? If you like to overclock, Haswell is worth it (can't tell you why but read the Haswell Anandtech preview very carefully for buried treasure). On-die graphics is improving quite a bit as well. If you're into energy efficiency or even more graphics, Broadwell. I think the tech community will be very pleasantly surprised with Broadwell. But I'm biased, so we'll just going to have to prove it the hard way."

Source
Edited by Scorpion667 - 12/28/12 at 10:31am
    
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post #66 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post

I though 22nm Ivy Bridge ran hot at higher voltages due to TIM under IHS and 3d gate (trigate?) tech.
They are taking a hot (in the literal sense) litography and making it hotter by adding VRM's. I don't see how this could help overclocking under conventional cooling.
Like Skylit, I would be satisfied with a fast, low power CPU that can produce my desired frame rate in games. However from an overclocking standpoint, the thermal footprint could prove detrimental to high OC's.
BUT
As per Jacob from Intel who is doing the Reddit AMA:
"What do you usually do with your system? If you like to overclock, Haswell is worth it (can't tell you why but read the Haswell Anandtech preview very carefully for buried treasure). On-die graphics is improving quite a bit as well. If you're into energy efficiency or even more graphics, Broadwell. I think the tech community will be very pleasantly surprised with Broadwell. But I'm biased, so we'll just going to have to prove it the hard way."
Source

AFAIK Haswell will use a different transistor, most likely it will be less leaky than trigate. Power wise leaked slide did show Desktop Haswell w/ 84W TDP which is higher than Ivy's 77W. However I am no really worried about the heat issue, we already have Motherboards that run uncovered VRM OC like Champ(Gigabyte UD3H).
Edited by sherlock - 12/28/12 at 10:40am
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post #67 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post

I though 22nm Ivy Bridge ran hot at higher voltages due to TIM under IHS and 3d gate (trigate?) tech.
They are taking a hot (in the literal sense) litography and making it hotter by adding VRM's. I don't see how this could help overclocking under conventional cooling.
Like Skylit, I would be satisfied with a fast, low power CPU that can produce my desired frame rate in games. However from an overclocking standpoint, the thermal footprint could prove detrimental to high OC's.
BUT
As per Jacob from Intel who is doing the Reddit AMA:
"What do you usually do with your system? If you like to overclock, Haswell is worth it (can't tell you why but read the Haswell Anandtech preview very carefully for buried treasure). On-die graphics is improving quite a bit as well. If you're into energy efficiency or even more graphics, Broadwell. I think the tech community will be very pleasantly surprised with Broadwell. But I'm biased, so we'll just going to have to prove it the hard way."
Source

Ivybridge didn't run at higher voltages, it ran at higher temperatures, and it was 99% because they didn't use solder, it wasn't the TIM they used per say, the TIM was actually quite good, but more the gap between the die and the IHS, delidding it and getting rid of that gap decreased temperatures substantially
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post #68 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcamaross View Post

Ivybridge didn't run at higher voltages, it ran at higher temperatures, and it was 99% because they didn't use solder, it wasn't the TIM they used per say, the TIM was actually quite good, but more the gap between the die and the IHS, delidding it and getting rid of that gap decreased temperatures substantially

I didn't say it ran at higher voltage I said it ran hot at higher voltages. I.E put a 2500k and a 3570k at 1.35v and you can guess which will run hotter.
I do see your point though.
    
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post #69 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post

I didn't say it ran at higher voltage I said it ran hot at higher voltages. I.E put a 2500k and a 3570k at 1.35v and you can guess which will run hotter.
I do see your point though.

That's nothing surprising though because of the die shrink & Increase in transistor count:



Ivy: 1.4 Billion transistors, 160mm^2


Sandy: 0.995 Billion transistors, 216mm^2

So 405 million more transistor and only 74% the size, ofc at the same Vcore Ivy would be hotter, the TIM and possibly leaky transistors just exaggerated it more.
Edited by sherlock - 12/28/12 at 11:00am
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post #70 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Motherboards of the future will just be a PCB of sockets and plugs...

biggrin.gif Maybe just the chip, everything (from power to data) will be wireless ....
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