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post #31 of 41
exactly! and its completely upgradable.
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The Naked Scooter
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post #32 of 41
Dont buy a kit. All kits put everything in the wrong place, just for the sake of looking cool.

If you decided to water cool:

Reservoir needs to be above the highest block

Pump needs to be at the LOWEST point in the case to acheive the MAXIMUM amount of positive head off of the reservoir.

Use the LEAST amount of hose and fittings you can. Less drag = higher velocity water flow and longer pump life.

Dont use multiple sized hoses, they lead to air bubbles in your system, and you lose alot of head.

Last but not least, mount your radiator OUTSIDE of your case, and preferably not connected to your computer's air system. Thermaltakes new dual 120mm radiator is ideal for this.

All of that is stuff I have learned from working in water treatment. Its all stuff we implement in our civic water system in my city.

Hope that helps.
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post #33 of 41
In my opinion there’s some good info and some bad info in viper37’s post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
All of that is stuff I have learned from working in water treatment. Its all stuff we implement in our civic water system in my city.
When it comes to water flow, I believe that civic water systems are considered open systems. Our small PC water-cooling loops are viewed as closed systems. This affects a few of your suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Dont buy a kit. All kits put everything in the wrong place, just for the sake of looking cool.
I would mostly agree. The Swiftech kits include the radbox, which makes an attempt to use outside air for the radiator. Mounting the radiator elsewhere usually involves some modification to the case (unless the case was built with water-cooling in mind.) The Swiftech kits also mount the reservoir fairly high. So I would say Swiftech kits are good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Reservoir needs to be above the highest block
I agree, but please...lets give reasons for our suggestions. The reservoir should be higher than anything else simply to assist filling the system (which is the whole reason for having one in the first place.) Otherwise it could go anywhere. Personally, I don’t like reservoirs so I’ve stopped using them (or “Tâ€s, for that matter.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Pump needs to be at the LOWEST point in the case to acheive the MAXIMUM amount of positive head off of the reservoir.
As I said, our loops are closed systems. The Static Head is closed systems is always 0. It doesn’t matter where the pump is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Use the LEAST amount of hose and fittings you can. Less drag = higher velocity water flow and longer pump life.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Dont use multiple sized hoses, they lead to air bubbles in your system, and you lose alot of head.
I would agree with the head loss, but not the bubbles. This does not occur in small PC water-cooling systems. People use reducers all the time, and there’s no difference between reducers and the (relatively) extreme trip that the water makes through a waterblock. I’ve used reducers in my loop and have never had a problem with bubbles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Last but not least, mount your radiator OUTSIDE of your case, and preferably not connected to your computer's air system. Thermaltakes new dual 120mm radiator is ideal for this.
I agree with mounting your radiator so that outside air gets drawn through it. You can use Swiftech’s Radbox, or, better still mount the radiator in the front of the case and draw air through it and into the case. Of course, this might require some case modification, but the result is usually worth the effort.
post #34 of 41
Radbox looks cool. Random question thats sorta off topic.. My computer won't fit into my desk fully because of this backing and I was planning on trying to take a piece of the wood out thats blocking it. Anyone have any idea on what to use to cut it?
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post #35 of 41
I dont have time to reply to your entire post Graystar, but ill address a few points.

I use a reservoir because while you lose some velocity inside of it, you have room for more coolant.

More coolant = more cooling capacity.

Also, I prefer reservoirs over T lines because they are a 2 way street.

Pumping water up is a chore, but when it comes back down, you have gravity working for you.

Why do you think you see Reservoirs on top of hills and not in Valleys?

Any yes, it does matter where the pump is.

I found this out when we re-designed our raw water bypass system.

When we pump in water during a high demand cycle, we utilize 2 reservoirs. However, when this cycle is completed, we have around 500-700,000 gallons of water left over. Thus we pump it back to its originating reservoir.

We tried 2 designs on two systems over 2 years.

System number one had the pump at the same level as the reservoir's inlet.

System number two had the pump at the beginning of the waste charge pipe.

System number two, was more efficient, used less electricity, passed more GPH than the other, and lasted longer.

When using reducers and expanders, there is always a chance for air introduction depending on the size/ plumbing of your system.

All these are just tips to maximize your water cooling. However its perfectly fine as is.
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post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by beret9987 View Post
Radbox looks cool. Random question thats sorta off topic.. My computer won't fit into my desk fully because of this backing and I was planning on trying to take a piece of the wood out thats blocking it. Anyone have any idea on what to use to cut it?
Sawsall, Dremel, Reciprocating Saw, Hacksaw, C4, SledgeHammer.

Whatever you want.


(When in doubt, start with a small hacksaw.)
Gran Torino
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post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_not_an_artard View Post
ok, im using the basic Bigwater SE with normal paste, and im gettin 48 celcius idle, and almost 60 load, i think ill try AS5 nxt, but what else can help me
I lapped both my CPU IHS and the base of the BigWater SE CPU water block (when I had it) and it dropped my CPU load temp by about 8°C if memory serves .

If you haven't got shrouds on your radiator, I'd recommend adding some, as this also lowered my load temps by 1°C or so.

AS5 will also help get those load temps down by around 1°C to 4°C .

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post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
I dont have time to reply to your entire post Graystar, but ill address a few points.
Again, you’re thinking open flow systems. PC water-cooling systems are closed. That means that:

1. The amount of coolant doesn’t affect cooling. Many tests over the years have demonstrated this.

2. A reservoir itself doesn’t affect average flow rate beyond the effects of its fittings. If you have a single T in your loop instead of a reservoir, then you gain the head loss of one fitting. But if you have a fill T and a discharge T then there is no difference in flow rate between a reservoir and two Ts.

3. In closed flow systems, gravity is not a factor. In an open system, I know that the Static Head is the difference between the two water levels that a pump is pumping from and to. This affects flow rate. However, I do not know enough about the actual pumping, as I’m not concerned with open systems, and I don’t know details, such as if your reservoir inlet is higher than the reservoir water level. So, if you say the pump placement matters in your system, I believe you. However, as I’ve said before, a PC water-cooling loop is a closed system. The Static Head of a closed system is always 0 ft and pump placement doesn’t matter.

4. PC water-cooling systems use hose barb. On every single fitting there is a reduction from the hose diameter to the fitting diameter. If what you say is true then every single water-cooling setup should have air in the system. Experience shows that this does not happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
All these are just tips to maximize your water cooling.
Tips to improve water-cooling are fine, but they have to have sound reasoning behind them and be backed by experience within PC water-cooling systems. And in this case experience shows that reducers, pump placement, and coolant levels have no effect on the effectiveness of a water-cooling loop.
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graystar View Post
Again, you’re thinking open flow systems.
A raw water return to a reservoir is not an open system...
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post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
A raw water return to a reservoir is not an open system...
As I said, I don’t know the details of your system so I can’t really speak of it. I find it difficult to believe that the reservoirs you speak of are not open to atmospheric pressure, but like I said, I don’t know the details and certainly won’t dispute your own personal experience.

However, I DO know the details of PC water-cooling systems. And within this area I can speak with knowledge and experience. The things I’ve described have been verfied by many people over several years of testing and experience.
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