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[TR] Driver software to be tweaked to reduce Radeon frame latencies in series of updates - Page 5  

post #41 of 302
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

When someone accepts a plea deal whether the person is guilty or not the person will be legally and publicly perceived guilty whether they did the crime or not.
Some games most certainly have higher latencies on AMD while others have remained mostly the same. This whole debacle started because one of the most problematic engines, ever used on many different major releases, was used to display an issue that was exacerbated by said engine and games.
This only allows the green side to say "yep, we're 100% right", and said users to continue to troll and make one sided arguments with half the info. Throughout many years you'd always hear NV is smoother and from TTR's previous test on the 570/6970 the 6970 managed to win out some games in latency to be the smoother experience. Yet if you checked any forum across the net the general view was NV was better in all games and that is still true to this day.
We'll use the OC vs stock and Color arguments and show how funny things are there with today's biases.
The argument Red always makes (which is fair) is that the 670/680 are never stock because of boost and while a bench will say 7970@925 vs 680@1000 in reality with the boost it can be something like 925 vs 1150 and it's not a fair fight. Then Red will say well OC the 7970 to 1150, but green will say no this is stock test, red will say it's an easy thing to fix and compare for an even fight, green will say no it isn't stock.
As of late people have brought out the whole AMD "Looks better" color argument (also the IQ with different methods but this isn't what I'm talking about) and the first thing people say (which I already stated) is NV and AMD use different color profiles, so NV's looked a bit more "washed out" while AMD's colors look more "vibrant". The fix is simple, calibrate your freaking screen's OSD/ GPU control panel/ windows settings properly and this wouldn't be an issue.
Funny thing is everyone with an NV GPU first response was? "Well you can fix them easily by calibrating properly" as it should have been because it's a non issue. The Stock gpu test should be done on actual stock clocks and removed the random turbo or allowed AMD to boost with the same % of boost or same clocks and neither side should have an issue with either solution.
The point that I'm making is everyone makes arguments for their side when it suits them and most don't even try to be objective.
Some of us have wanted many different games tested because we feel the Creation Engine/Gamebryo might be the single worst game to test MS or any kind of stability issue because of it's inherent shoddiness (Anyone ever finish Fallout 3 without community mods fixing issues? because I know I crashed every 5 mins with either 4870/460/5870 CF/SLI or single gpu nothing and official made a dent in those crashes).
I'm glad AMD will look into it as it will improve drivers in general but unlike most I'm not this seeing as some come on affirmation that TTR's finding were correct, and ALL games show this stutter like others around the net seem to be stating. We still need to run many more test runs with exact areas and time stamps so we can compare with different areas and games, some levels AMD can destroy NV, likewise it can flip, then in certain levels NV and AMD are neck to neck in the same game. If one person does a review on the first part guess who wins? AMD, if it's done on the second part with maybe super high Tess NV wins, in the last area it's a draw.
We still need much more info and even when a company says "we'll fix it" that doesn't exactly come quickly.
For FC3 I would also like to warn AMD users to hold your horses until an actual fix is out for it, during my 5870/460 CF/SLI days I choose to keep the 460's in my main specifically because of NV's superior game support and they would release fixed profiles MUCH quicker. FC3 should be a good gauge on how much AMD's drivers have actually improved and how far behind their release is behind NV's eventual fix.
In my own mind AMD is still a bit behind NV in drivers but they are no longer a laughing stock a some would like to still believe.

Good read friend, +rep for being unbaised and truthful.
    
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post #42 of 302
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

When someone accepts a plea deal whether the person is guilty or not the person will be legally and publicly perceived guilty whether they did the crime or not.
Some games most certainly have higher latencies on AMD while others have remained mostly the same. This whole debacle started because one of the most problematic engines, ever used on many different major releases, was used to display an issue that was exacerbated by said engine and games.
This only allows the green side to say "yep, we're 100% right", and said users to continue to troll and make one sided arguments with half the info. Throughout many years you'd always hear NV is smoother and from TTR's previous test on the 570/6970 the 6970 managed to win out some games in latency to be the smoother experience. Yet if you checked any forum across the net the general view was NV was better in all games and that is still true to this day.
We'll use the OC vs stock and Color arguments and show how funny things are there with today's biases.
The argument Red always makes (which is fair) is that the 670/680 are never stock because of boost and while a bench will say 7970@925 vs 680@1000 in reality with the boost it can be something like 925 vs 1150 and it's not a fair fight. Then Red will say well OC the 7970 to 1150, but green will say no this is stock test, red will say it's an easy thing to fix and compare for an even fight, green will say no it isn't stock.
As of late people have brought out the whole AMD "Looks better" color argument (also the IQ with different methods but this isn't what I'm talking about) and the first thing people say (which I already stated) is NV and AMD use different color profiles, so NV's looked a bit more "washed out" while AMD's colors look more "vibrant". The fix is simple, calibrate your freaking screen's OSD/ GPU control panel/ windows settings properly and this wouldn't be an issue.
Funny thing is everyone with an NV GPU first response was? "Well you can fix them easily by calibrating properly" as it should have been because it's a non issue. The Stock gpu test should be done on actual stock clocks and removed the random turbo or allowed AMD to boost with the same % of boost or same clocks and neither side should have an issue with either solution.
The point that I'm making is everyone makes arguments for their side when it suits them and most don't even try to be objective.
Some of us have wanted many different games tested because we feel the Creation Engine/Gamebryo might be the single worst game to test MS or any kind of stability issue because of it's inherent shoddiness (Anyone ever finish Fallout 3 without community mods fixing issues? because I know I crashed every 5 mins with either 4870/460/5870 CF/SLI or single gpu nothing and official made a dent in those crashes).
I'm glad AMD will look into it as it will improve drivers in general but unlike most I'm not this seeing as some come on affirmation that TTR's finding were correct, and ALL games show this stutter like others around the net seem to be stating. We still need to run many more test runs with exact areas and time stamps so we can compare with different areas and games, some levels AMD can destroy NV, likewise it can flip, then in certain levels NV and AMD are neck to neck in the same game. If one person does a review on the first part guess who wins? AMD, if it's done on the second part with maybe super high Tess NV wins, in the last area it's a draw.
We still need much more info and even when a company says "we'll fix it" that doesn't exactly come quickly.
For FC3 I would also like to warn AMD users to hold your horses until an actual fix is out for it, during my 5870/460 CF/SLI days I choose to keep the 460's in my main specifically because of NV's superior game support and they would release fixed profiles MUCH quicker. FC3 should be a good gauge on how much AMD's drivers have actually improved and how far behind their release is behind NV's eventual fix.
In my own mind AMD is still a bit behind NV in drivers but they are no longer a laughing stock a some would like to still believe.

Actually, let me say something about Nvidia colors. You actually CANNOT fix them, well, sort of. You can't achieve color accuracy to a standard. You can use your monitor's OSD to change some settings but you're never going to achieve colors accurate to a standard at any temperature that way. Most games will override any calibration at a software level, that includes changes to the desktop color in Nvidia control panel, Windows color profiles, 3rd party calibration software, and so forth. The only way to get machine accurate colors is to get a colorimeter and software to create a Windows color profile BTW. There is some software that may work for some games but more often than not they fail or they may set off anti-cheating systems.

AMD on the other hand CAN achieve accurate colors. Of course, it requires third party software, but it works. It takes a color profile, creates a LUT and loads it onto the graphics card (at a hardware level) and blocks changes to the LUT so games don't override it. You can't do that with Nvidia, they won't allow it and they've been ignoring the issue for quite some time.

There is another way but that's by having a monitor that has an accessible LUT. You can basically forget about that though.
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post #43 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptorpowa View Post

I have never experience any microstutter in any games...I know how to fix it and I don't whine and debate here like a little kid....but, amd screwed up and this is the last set of gpu that I willl buy from amd product...This is sad knowing that they are in financial trouble and now this?

Funny, but in this entire thread you have been "whining and debating like a kid" Not saying you have, but it might be how you would evaluate yourself if you weren't the one posting. thumb.gif
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post #44 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

Hahaha its funny how many people called me a troll cause I said I noticed stutter alot in some games with my HD 7870 but not with the 660ti as much.
Now AMD has admitted they messed up. Lets see what people gotta say now. rolleyes.gif

Unfortunately it can sometimes not even be worth bringing this stuff up on forums because more so than any other part people get really attached to "their" graphics card brand. Its sad but true.
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post #45 of 302
I own predominantly AMD graphics hardware at this point, and I never bashed the TechReport findings. I only noted how they only seemed to apply to GCN, as my own tests with 6000 series, and earlier products, produced no equivalent issue.

It's pretty clear that at least in some games, AMD has a perceptible issue with inconsistent frame times. A fix for this is a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

The argument Red always makes (which is fair) is that the 670/680 are never stock because of boost and while a bench will say 7970@925 vs 680@1000 in reality with the boost it can be something like 925 vs 1150 and it's not a fair fight. Then Red will say well OC the 7970 to 1150, but green will say no this is stock test, red will say it's an easy thing to fix and compare for an even fight, green will say no it isn't stock.

This argument is totaly absurd, and not remotely "fair".

A stock GTX 6xx card has turbo. A stock 7xxx card will throttle in some tasks. "Stock" is not a fixed clock speed, end of story.
Edited by Blameless - 1/3/13 at 12:33am
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post #46 of 302
the microstutter has always been noticeable. i love amd cards but truthfully the nvidia counterparts run a lot smoother.
post #47 of 302
I'm glad to see they are fixing the 7000 series but does this problem exist with the 6000 series cards?
post #48 of 302
same old amd..only whats there latest and greatest they are worried about...leave everything else behind.
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post #49 of 302
personally I never noticed any stuttering even now that my DCII is in RMA. My single card runs fine. I love reading about the haters though. They make me laugh especially when they pick a side. When there sig says xfire'd cards and SLI'd cards under same sig rig. Thats funny. I have been with both camps. Nvidias 8800 series had serious driver issues. at the time amds were miniscule from what I seen. Now AMD is having a few issues. Who cares. eventually there will be a fix then what will people whine about. Sorry if I am ranting but there should be no bickering here.
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post #50 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formel View Post

I'm glad to see they are fixing the 7000 series but does this problem exist with the 6000 series cards?

No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snitchkilla11 View Post

same old amd..only whats there latest and greatest they are worried about...leave everything else behind.

This is pretty much everyone, AMD, NVIDIA, mobo makers...all of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlenut View Post

personally I never noticed any stuttering even now that my DCII is in RMA.

The isn't serious enough for most people to notice except in a handful of games, and some people are more sensitive to it than others.
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Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
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Primary
(15 items)
 
Secondary
(13 items)
 
In progress
(10 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820K @ 4.3/3.6GHz core/uncore, 1.225/1.2v Gigabyte X99 SOC Champion (F22n) 2x Sapphire R9 290X Tri-X OC New Edition (10036... 4x4GiB Crucial @ 2667, 12-11-12-27-T1, 1.37v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Plextor M6e 128GB (fw 1.05) M.2 (PCI-E 2.0 2x) 2x Crucial M4 256GB 4x WD Scorpio Black 500GB Cooler Master Nepton 280L 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 BenQ BL3200PT Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (MX Brown) Corsair RM1000x 
CaseMouseAudio
Fractal Design Define R4 Logitech G402 Realtek ALC1150 + M-Audio AV40 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5670 @ 4.4/3.2GHz core/uncore, 1.36 vcore, 1.2... Gigabyte X58A-UD5 r2.0 w/FF3mod10 BIOS Reference R9 290X w/Stilt's MLU 1000e / 1375m E... 2x Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US @ 2000, 10-11-11-30-T1,... 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Crucial BLT4G3D1608ET3LX0 @ 2000, 10-11-11-3... OCZ (Toshiba) Trion 150 120GB Hyundai Sapphire 120GB 3x Hitachi Deskstar 7k1000.C 1TB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 Antec TP-750 Fractal Design R5 
Audio
ASUS Xonar DS 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6800K @ 4.3/3.5GHz core/uncore, 1.36/1.2v ASRock X99 OC Formula (P3.10) GTX 780 (temporary) 4x4GiB Crucial DDR4-2400 @ 11-13-12-28-T2, 1.33v 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Intel 600p 256GB NVMe 2x HGST Travelstar 7k1000 1TB Corsair H55 (temporary) Windows Server 2016 Datacenter 
PowerCase
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Corsair Carbide Air 540 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [TR] Driver software to be tweaked to reduce Radeon frame latencies in series of updates