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[TR] Driver software to be tweaked to reduce Radeon frame latencies in series of updates - Page 7  

post #61 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Lol its not an old game it just use old engine. The same engine that oblivion,fallout and fallout new vages used.

it's old, damn game won't even scale right on eyefinity....good thing, I can do win + p, one of the game that I play on single monitor.....opps, I thought I said last post for today lol....damn ocn...very addicting.mad.gif
Edited by Raptorpowa - 1/3/13 at 5:37am
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post #62 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Sadly yes.

Well ... that's a bit ridiculous!
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post #63 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAHOP240 View Post

Key word here is "beta" drivers

The problem is that those are the same beta drivers that have been used to prove that AMD cards got a big performance boost and are in fact superior to NV ones.
 
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post #64 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The problem is that those are the same beta drivers that have been used to prove that AMD cards got a big performance boost and are in fact superior to NV ones.

exactly right, I wonder when they fix the drivers, would it eliminate the 15% boost on fps?...stay tuned!...ahh next year lol.....
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post #65 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

There's nothing that complicated to it. Stock is what comes out of the box, the "spirit of stock tests" is to test how the product is out of the box and that's how stock tests have been done and are being done.
What you're saying is the same as saying that we shouldn't let CPUs have turbo features when reviewing them, which is ridiculous.

Not necessarily, when it comes to CPU we also factor it whether it's locked or unlocked and the cost associated with combined components because other things affect how we see cpu value. When it comes to GPUs, benchmarks are absolute and almost nothing else is considered, in many cases PSU's aren't even considered as we too often see is the norm. CPU benchmarks are not as critical before buying as GPU ones are and as far reaching with changing perception when performance is this close as Kepler and Tahiti are. (remember the whole Athlon vs P4 AMD>Intel time yet everyone "knew" Intel was better?)


Like I said, I know some won't agree but when I see Kepler benchmarks and the reviewer doesn't mention the actual clocks and sticks to what's on the box it, tells me a lot about the reviewer and I know how little value I should take from a bench made with unknown clocks.

This is clearly a personal preference and I know I'm the minority of those who've owned both camp cards the last few years. I don't expect to change the norm but like I said I think those "stock" benchmarks are "stock", and I don't think AMD has better colors, I calibrate the things that I use which again is the minority.

But hey this is a guy who hates when people refer to 2160 as 4k , yet 1920 is 1080P, they should have settled on on HD, QHD, and UHD, as the standards are but whatever I'm weird. Like I said each his own. thumb.gif (yes I know you can have different many resolutions combinations but you know what I mean as far as the standards, 1080 is 1920x, and 1200 is 1920x, 1440 is 2560x, ect ect,)
Edited by Junkboy - 1/3/13 at 6:18am
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post #66 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptorpowa View Post

This.
I apologize to the TR people and their staff...I take back all the not so nice things that I said bout your benchmark...Keep up the good work!
I really wish more people on this site demonstrated that kind of integrity. Props for that.

The thread with the original article was like 10+ pages long in a day, full of posts completely trashing TR and screaming "bias zomg!!!" without even considering that there might be some truth to it.... where are all those people now? rolleyes.gif

OCN's community has really gone downhill lately.
post #67 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

Not necessarily, when it comes to CPU we also factor it whether it's locked or unlocked and the cost associated with combined components because other things affect how we see cpu value. When it comes to GPUs, benchmarks are absolute and almost nothing else is considered, in many cases PSU's aren't even considered as we too often see is the norm. CPU benchmarks are not as critical before buying as GPU ones are and as far reaching with changing perception when performance is this close as Kepler and Tahiti are. (remember the whole Athlon vs P4 AMD>Intel time yet everyone "knew" Intel was better?)

When GPUs are reviewed stuff like OCing features, extra phases, custom coolers, pcbs etc. are taken into account. Just like with CPUs, actually even more so. Benchmarks aren't everything especially since with GPUs you usually get some games with your purchase. So yes, suggesting that boost shouldn't be used in reviews is exactly the same s saying that turbo boost shouldn't be used in CPU reviews.

CPU is the more critical part for most of the users in the world, especially the ones that actually need powerful hardware.

Also I fail to see how the pentium 4 vs. athlon situation is relevant. AMD's offerings were better and the benchmarks showed it. The only reason people bought intel was because they didn't know better.

And the boost feature isn't changing the perception of Kepler, it actually changes it. It makes it faster at stock settings, it's not an OC, it's completely out of the box and that's how most reviews are done and should be done. As I stated previously, OCd reviews are a different beast entirely. Stock ones are more valid to some people and OCd ones to some.

Quote:
Like I said, I know some won't agree but when I see Kepler benchmarks and the reviewer doesn't mention the actual clocks and sticks to what's on the box it, tells me a lot about the reviewer and I know how little value I should take from a bench made with unknown clocks.

It just tells that the reviewer made his/her job and that he didn't cripple a card's performance just so the user could get a single number. As far as I know, many reviewers do show the boost clocks so I don't really see the issue.

Just because the review doesn't offer a scenario that you would face doesn't make it a bad review or something that shouldn't be done. It's showing the scenario that's accurate for most of the people buying the products.

Quote:
This is clearly a personal preference and I know I'm the minority of those who've owned both camp cards the last few years. I don't expect to change the norm but like I said I think those "stock" benchmarks are "stock", and I don't think AMD has better colors, I calibrate the things that I use which again is the minority.
But hey this is a guy who hates when people refer to 2160 as 4k , yet 1920 is 1080P, they should have settled on on HD, QHD, and UHD, as the standards are but whatever I'm weird. Like I said each his own. thumb.gif (yes I know you can have different many resolutions combinations but you know what I mean as far as the standards, 1080 is 1920x, and 1200 is 1920x, 1440 is 2560x, ect ect,)

I'm pretty sure that out of the people that OC their cards you're not in the minority if you've owned cards from both camps. I personally have more AMD (well ATI actually) cards than NV ones but that doesn't mean anything, usually when you hear someone say that is before they make a statement that isn't exactly logical. Just like how you're saying that stock isn't actually stock. It just doesn't make any sense.

TL;DR Stock reviews are to be done with cards that work as they do out of the box, how the customer would use them without tweaking and OCd reviews are a separate matter. Users can then decide if the review holds any relevance to their usage scenario.
 
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post #68 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

didn't provide any boost to the HD 6000 series, so I guess you can say the same for the HD 5000 series. I can't speak for all the drivers since 11.8 though.

I got awesome smoothness in Skyrim, never seen in any other driver release.

That for me was more than worth it wink.gif
   
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post #69 of 302
To the Whole comunity:


step 1: refer to my signature

step 2: move on with your life.. your GFX company ITS NOT your mom/family, chill out please thumb.gif
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post #70 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

When someone accepts a plea deal whether the person is guilty or not the person will be legally and publicly perceived guilty whether they did the crime or not.
Some games most certainly have higher latencies on AMD while others have remained mostly the same. This whole debacle started because one of the most problematic engines, ever used on many different major releases, was used to display an issue that was exacerbated by said engine and games.
This only allows the green side to say "yep, we're 100% right", and said users to continue to troll and make one sided arguments with half the info. Throughout many years you'd always hear NV is smoother and from TTR's previous test on the 570/6970 the 6970 managed to win out some games in latency to be the smoother experience. Yet if you checked any forum across the net the general view was NV was better in all games and that is still true to this day.
We'll use the OC vs stock and Color arguments and show how funny things are there with today's biases.
The argument Red always makes (which is fair) is that the 670/680 are never stock because of boost and while a bench will say 7970@925 vs 680@1000 in reality with the boost it can be something like 925 vs 1150 and it's not a fair fight. Then Red will say well OC the 7970 to 1150, but green will say no this is stock test, red will say it's an easy thing to fix and compare for an even fight, green will say no it isn't stock.
As of late people have brought out the whole AMD "Looks better" color argument (also the IQ with different methods but this isn't what I'm talking about) and the first thing people say (which I already stated) is NV and AMD use different color profiles, so NV's looked a bit more "washed out" while AMD's colors look more "vibrant". The fix is simple, calibrate your freaking screen's OSD/ GPU control panel/ windows settings properly and this wouldn't be an issue.
Funny thing is everyone with an NV GPU first response was? "Well you can fix them easily by calibrating properly" as it should have been because it's a non issue. The Stock gpu test should be done on actual stock clocks and removed the random turbo or allowed AMD to boost with the same % of boost or same clocks and neither side should have an issue with either solution.
The point that I'm making is everyone makes arguments for their side when it suits them and most don't even try to be objective.
Some of us have wanted many different games tested because we feel the Creation Engine/Gamebryo might be the single worst game to test MS or any kind of stability issue because of it's inherent shoddiness (Anyone ever finish Fallout 3 without community mods fixing issues? because I know I crashed every 5 mins with either 4870/460/5870 CF/SLI or single gpu nothing and official made a dent in those crashes).
I'm glad AMD will look into it as it will improve drivers in general but unlike most I'm not this seeing as some come on affirmation that TTR's finding were correct, and ALL games show this stutter like others around the net seem to be stating. We still need to run many more test runs with exact areas and time stamps so we can compare with different areas and games, some levels AMD can destroy NV, likewise it can flip, then in certain levels NV and AMD are neck to neck in the same game. If one person does a review on the first part guess who wins? AMD, if it's done on the second part with maybe super high Tess NV wins, in the last area it's a draw.
We still need much more info and even when a company says "we'll fix it" that doesn't exactly come quickly.
For FC3 I would also like to warn AMD users to hold your horses until an actual fix is out for it, during my 5870/460 CF/SLI days I choose to keep the 460's in my main specifically because of NV's superior game support and they would release fixed profiles MUCH quicker. FC3 should be a good gauge on how much AMD's drivers have actually improved and how far behind their release is behind NV's eventual fix.
In my own mind AMD is still a bit behind NV in drivers but they are no longer a laughing stock a some would like to still believe.

AMD have boost also so your argument is invalid.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [TR] Driver software to be tweaked to reduce Radeon frame latencies in series of updates