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[IGN] New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games - Page 23

post #221 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamy144 View Post

The one time I'm happy I own an Xbox.
This is just stupid, as someone said before do they not make enough money.

Microsoft just wants to watch how many people are sitting on your couch when you rent a movie from them and charge you accordingly...

 

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post #222 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Green View Post

I am not saying you are arguing for piracy. I am saying you are for used copies, but against piracy, even though the damage to the devs is the same. Whether you pirate or you buy a used copy, in the end they are only getting money for 1 copy. You can try to justify it to make yourself not feel bad, but it's the reality.

But a used game, just like a used car means they ALREADY GOT PAID for it ... just like Ford already got paid for the 2003 Mercury Marauder I bought. Doesn't matter if I keep it, lend it to my wife, or sell it to someone else ... only one person can drive it at a time. Ford (and Sony) already got PAID and the developers were able to put food on their table for that week.

The same thing goes with non-"Pay per play" (ie MMO type games). It doesn't matter if I bought it from Sony and I still play it, or if I give it to my wife or sell it to my buddy. Sony already got PAID once for it already. I'm not making any more copies of the game "out of thin air" (like Piracy does). If Sony sold 1 million copies of a game, they got 1 million copies worth of money. It doesn't matter who plays the game (ie the original buyer, their wives, or if they are sold to 1 million other people and now ONLY that person is playing the game), the same 1 million people are playing the game that has ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR AND SONY COLLECTED THE MONEY FOR.

Piracy on the other hand, as I said before, means that you buy 1 copy from Sony and make a million copies and the developers only get paid for 1 copy, not 1 million and 1.

Piracy and "Used" aren't the same ... no matter how want to cut it. If you can't see the difference in the two examples, then the problem is with you, not me.
post #223 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post

Wow there are so many things wrong with Sony/MS doing this...
( ! ! ! Wall of text warning ! ! ! )
1) We know they are still going to want $60~$80 a game.
2) The above prices will not go down as quickly as there is no used market.
3) How many people are going to risk $60+ on a game that has no resale value?
4) If it is tied to the console and that console dies you are out a ton of cash and games.
5) Even if it is only tied to your gamertag, what happens in households like mine where I have 2~3 of each system and the kids want to play a game that is tied to my account on a different system while I am using my account to play a different game? There is no way I am going to buy another $60+ game just so someone else in my own household can play it.
6)]What happens if your account is banned or stolen? Sony and MS take weeks if not months to recover accounts as it is. Now for that entire time your console will literally be a brick unless you make a new account and assign new games to it.
7) If the disc itself has a writable sector (vs a simple key) what happens if it gets bit-rot? Or the power goes out when that sector is being written? Or the system is bumped when writing? What happens if you insert it into a console with the wrong account logged in?
8) What if the authentication servers are down? Or I have a long term internet connection? Can I load a new game? Will old ones run?
Making games unresellable will be the nail in the coffin for many console gamers. We have enough hoops to jump through with accounts, online keys, DLC and the ever odd in game store that follows no logical path, to want to deal with the fact that we may be buying a $60+ turd with no way of getting even a little of that money back.
I guarantee that any company that does this to a console will get no more $$$ from me. And I hold grudges for a heck of along time... (have yet to buy a PS3 or any other Sony hardware/media since the PS2 days)

You make a lot of great points. The part in bold is especially interesting because if this were to happen we may begin to see a second coming of PC gaming with flocks of angry console gamers switching back to PC....
post #224 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

But a used game, just like a used car means they ALREADY GOT PAID for it ... just like Ford already got paid for the 2003 Mercury Marauder I bought. Doesn't matter if I keep it, lend it to my wife, or sell it to someone else ... only one person can drive it at a time. Ford (and Sony) already got PAID and the developers were able to put food on their table for that week.
The same thing goes with non-"Pay per play" (ie MMO type games). It doesn't matter if I bought it from Sony and I still play it, or if I give it to my wife or sell it to my buddy. Sony already got PAID once for it already. I'm not making any more copies of the game "out of thin air" (like Piracy does). If Sony sold 1 million copies of a game, they got 1 million copies worth of money. It doesn't matter who plays the game (ie the original buyer, their wives, or if they are sold to 1 million other people and now ONLY that person is playing the game), the same 1 million people are playing the game that has ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR AND SONY COLLECTED THE MONEY FOR.
Piracy on the other hand, as I said before, means that you buy 1 copy from Sony and make a million copies and the developers only get paid for 1 copy, not 1 million and 1.
Piracy and "Used" aren't the same ... no matter how want to cut it. If you can't see the difference in the two examples, then the problem is with you, not me.

Well, the argument is that when people buy a second hand game...or a used item of any kind...the original developer/manufacturer is losing a sale.

I do not agree with this statement...not in the majority of cases anyway. The only time I think it might actually hurt anything is the new trade in deals I see. Where a place like Game Stop is selling traded in copies of a game for $50 when the same game is still $60 new off the shelf. If some one can spend $50 on a game they likely could pay $60 for a new copy (and a new sale for the publisher)...they are just saving $10 since they can. Not really any different than using a coupon. However, some one selling an old game on ebay for $15 that is $30 new in stores is not a lost sale. Me digging through bins of old used PS2 games at pawn shops are not lost sales. Perhaps if they put a time stamp on this new activation? Like after a year it no longer cares if the disk is used or not? I think it would be a happy middle ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

You make a lot of great points. The part in bold is especially interesting because if this were to happen we may begin to see a second coming of PC gaming with flocks of angry console gamers switching back to PC....

Heh, but the issue is still a problem on PCs as well...a rather large problem with the AAA titles at least. Right now it is probably pushing gamers from PC to consoles.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 1/4/13 at 9:02am
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post #225 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

You make a lot of great points. The part in bold is especially interesting because if this were to happen we may begin to see a second coming of PC gaming with flocks of angry console gamers switching back to PC....

Which also means the maturity of the PC gaming community may decrease. No offence to console gamers (I play PS3 and Wii).

But I don't think it will affect the number on people of consoles much, most people who get FPSes get them on release day through pre-ordering. I can only see this affecting people who play RPGs who don't care much for completing it before everyone else, etc.
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post #226 of 545
Well the consoles just lost one of their biggest selling points, unless microsoft doesn't follow suit (I bet they will though). looks like the console makers are starting to bring down their own market.
What's going on.
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post #227 of 545
This is terrible.

How often do you do something as simple as take a game to a mates place? If Microsoft are smart, they won't follow suit. And I'm willing to bet will win over some new customers in the process. I would
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post #228 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Well, the argument is that when people buy a second hand game...or a used item of any kind...the original developer/manufacturer is losing a sale.

This is no different in that supposed "lost sale" to Sony and Ford having a "lost sale" because you sold your car to someone else or letting your wife drive drive it.

The following isn't directed at you, just in general: The whole "lost sale" argument is silly, because that assumes that someone is going to pay $30,000 for a new car as opposed to $2,500 for a used one. The reality is, people will just take the bus or car pool if that was allowed to happen, and Ford would still be out the $30,000. Same goes with the game and Sony.
post #229 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtarmanrob View Post

This is terrible.
How often do you do something as simple as take a game to a mates place? If Microsoft are smart, they won't follow suit. And I'm willing to bet will win over some new customers in the process. I would

There's already been rumors among both Microsoft and Sony that they would be moving either to a full digital distribution service or more tightly controlled drm, for quite a while.
post #230 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

This is no different in that supposed "lost sale" to Sony and Ford having a "lost sale" because you sold your car to someone else or letting your wife drive drive it.
The following isn't directed at you, just in general: The whole "lost sale" argument is silly, because that assumes that someone is going to pay $30,000 for a new car as opposed to $2,500 for a used one. The reality is, people will just take the bus or car pool if that was allowed to happen, and Ford would still be out the $30,000. Same goes with the game and Sony.

Which is why the car industry isn't fighting used car sales...they know they are not losing sales and their service and parts divisions will probably see more sales. Something that second hand sales on game might be doing too...make more sales of the actual console. What you will notice is some manufacturers having "Certified pre-owned sales" at dealerships. These are all newer cars that would have used price tags closer to what a new car would...this way the manufacturer is getting a tiny piece of the pie on the second hand sale since they might actually be loosing a sale (though I doubt it happens often...they might get a very plain new car for close to the same price, but why do that if you can get one that is fairly new with lots of options? Though those of you who buy on credit should remember that 0-1.9% financing might mean a lower payment on a brand new car than a used one. I love free loans. 0% and 52 payments make buying a $40,000 car much easier.)
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 1/4/13 at 9:24am
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