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[IGN] New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games - Page 38

post #371 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric

Reducing the value of everybody's game libraries to zero with one wave of their magic wand is not right no matter how anybody here tries to justify it. Imagine if Toyota made it to where none of their cars would run for anybody but the original owner? That's the same basic thing Sony is trying to do and its ridiculous...

It IS right if Toyota are up front about it - yeah, it would be market suicide but.. it's up to the people that create to define the terms of sale in my opinion.

I make a pie, you buy it -well it's reasonable that you can do whatever you like with it.

I make a game, you buy a license to play that particular game as long as you want to, it's an exclusive licence and cannot be transferred to another person. Fine - you knew about it when you bought it - vote with your feet and they might change things but we all know corporations exist to make money... lots of money. This is a nice way to ensure everyone buys the latest Space Invaders when it comes out because the justification of "I will buy it 2nd hand later" will be gone. We all might be having a tanty but millions of consumers don't ever sell their games, they just leave em in a cupboard.


Hell, even if you did sell your game 2 years later you might get $10 per game... if the game cost $10 less because of the exclusive license... what does it matter to you?
post #372 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider_2001 View Post

Not if you agree to the licencing terms...
You know the thing you agree to when you play a game....
By playing the game you agree to those terms...
I'm pretty sure the DMCA gives Americans the right to archive regardless of the licensing terms.
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post #373 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider_2001 View Post

Not if you agree to the licencing terms...
You know the thing you agree to when you play a game....
By playing the game you agree to those terms...

EULA doesn't matter if there is a federal law. In other words, EULAs do not supersede law.

Which, there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenman View Post

It IS right if Toyota are up front about it - yeah, it would be market suicide but.. it's up to the people that create to define the terms of sale in my opinion.
I make a pie, you buy it -well it's reasonable that you can do whatever you like with it.
I make a game, you buy a license to play that particular game as long as you want to, it's an exclusive licence and cannot be transferred to another person. Fine - you knew about it when you bought it - vote with your feet and they might change things but we all know corporations exist to make money... lots of money. This is a nice way to ensure everyone buys the latest Space Invaders when it comes out because the justification of "I will buy it 2nd hand later" will be gone. We all might be having a tanty but millions of consumers don't ever sell their games, they just leave em in a cupboard.
Hell, even if you did sell your game 2 years later you might get $10 per game... if the game cost $10 less because of the exclusive license... what does it matter to you?

Wrong. See above.

There are laws in place to prevent that.
Edited by Cheezman - 1/6/13 at 1:50pm
 
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post #374 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

EULA doesn't matter if there is a federal law. In other words, EULAs do not supersede law.
Which, there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine
Wrong. See above.
There are laws in place to prevent that.
The first sale doctrine says that it's legal to resell. It does NOT say that it needs to be possible. The point, same as with account-tied Steam/Origin PC downloads, is to change a reusable item into a perishable one. The ONLY reason consoles aren't moving to direct downloads is because of the inconsistency of broadband access/data caps.
Edited by -Apocalypse- - 1/6/13 at 1:54pm
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post #375 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

I'm pretty sure the DMCA gives Americans the right to archive regardless of the licensing terms.

Last I remember breaking copyright protection in America for backup and archival purposes was still very much in the gray area. But at long as there was no copyright protection, then it was a no brainer that it was able to be backed up.

I may be a bit outdated though as I haven't bothered looking it up for a long time.

Edit: quick search turned up; http://www.homemediamagazine.com/digital-copy/feds-deny-dvd-copying-exemption-28711
post #376 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

The first sale doctrine says that it's legal to resell. It does NOT say that it needs to be possible.

How can it be legal (to resell) if you are actively preventing it?
 
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post #377 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

How can it be legal (to resell) if you are actively preventing it?
There's nothing preventing you from selling the disc. There's just no reason for someone to buy it.

Semantics are black and white when it comes to law.
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post #378 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Last I remember breaking copyright protection in America for backup and archival purposes was still very much in the gray area. But at long as there was no copyright protection, then it was a no brainer that it was able to be backed up.
I may be a bit outdated though as I haven't bothered looking it up for a long time.
Edit: quick search turned up; http://www.homemediamagazine.com/digital-copy/feds-deny-dvd-copying-exemption-28711
That denies replay onto devices without a DVD drive. It is still legal to rip the .iso for reburning and replaying onto a device with a DVD drive.
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post #379 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

There's nothing preventing you from selling the disc. There's just no reason for someone to buy it.
Semantics are black and white when it comes to law.

The disc and software on the disc make up the entire product. Therefore, both are governed under the same laws. If you are actively preventing someone reselling that disc (PLUS software) you are violating their federally granted rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Semantics are black and white when it comes to law.

No they aren't. That's why there is something called "legal grey area." Otherwise known as loopholes. rolleyes.gif
 
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post #380 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

There's nothing preventing you from selling the disc. There's just no reason for someone to buy it.
Semantics are black and white when it comes to law.

This - step back cheezman and see - there is no heart in this argument.

Software licensing has been around for years and copy protections like iloks and challenge response/online account logging are fine and perfectly legal. Getting all caught up because you think you can't sell the physical disc is wrong - you certainly can sell the disc. Just not the license for the game without sending your online account and console with it.
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