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[IGN] New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games - Page 45

post #441 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

on the whole Steam is doing exactly what we are bashing on this thread thing. I totally agree. The principles surrounding software sales and REsales are the same regardless of platform. I agree that it sux that PC games cant be resold or borrowed or rented etc.
So what are we all going to do about this beyond quabbling about it here?


That's the catch. I and a lot of people DON'T belive the principles are the same between console and PC. Tey are entirely different mediums with some things in common. When it comes to gaming, they function differently as well.

As for what I/we can do. I plan to do the same as I did with the PS3 when it wasn't backwards compatible leading me to see it as a feature limited product... NOT buy it. I don't own a PS3 and if I get one, it would only be a 1st gen that could still play PS2 games. Hard to come by without them being overpriced or having YLOD needing fixed.

Or, we could do something that has proven effective on occasion in the past, an online petition demanding certain features (account locking games) not be added. Regardless of whether or not people think it's fair since it's already common on PC, the PS4 ISN'T A PC and isn't the same, and people overwhelmingly DON'T want the feature. Listening to the consumer is generally a good idea when they actually know what they want. I'd sign the petition, and should it pass, i'd consider buying one... but backwards compatibility would be important in that decision.

I haven't kept up on it. Is the PS4 expected to play PS3 games as well? If it's that much of an advance, with them now out of PS2s as well, why not put the Emotion engine back in since PS2 games are still very popular? Sony, you continue to disappoint.
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post #442 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partol View Post

A right to do something does not give you a right to violate other laws (in order to exercise your rights).
Fair use rights and Back up copy rights does not give you any rights to violate the Digital Millenium Act.
If you violate the Digital Millenium Act (for any reason), you can be prosecuted, even if you were just trying to exercise your fair use and backup copy rights.
If you have a good excuse, maybe the judge/prosecutor/jury will be lenient or maybe not.

How about the right to be free from unjust laws? The DMA is overreaching in it's attempts to 'protect' the rights of those with IP/copyright claims.

When did we all become such cowards to oppose unjust legislation? "It's the law, so oh well... you can't break the law you know." Ok, then raise a fuss and have the law stricken since is hardly what it was meant to be. Remove it, re-write it, then see how it goes.
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post #443 of 545
The next xbox is going to also have anti used-game technology - I saw mention of that news several months ago. Get used to it folks.

I for one, am looking forward to the demise of gamestop and their used game thievery. rolleyes.gif Anyway, much whining will commence here but everyone should just get used to it. In this day and age where piracy is trivial, stuff like this will become the norm. As mentioned, this will be present on both the orbis and durango (ie all next gen consoles)

Since all of the next gen consoles are focused on digital distribution, it really is not a surprise. This is not dissimilar to itunes where you can use the content on your own devices but you can't freely sell or trade your wares to others. Steam, same thing. You get a license to play it on your devices, and yours alone.
Edited by xoleras - 1/9/13 at 11:21am
post #444 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

The next xbox is going to also have anti used-game technology - I saw mention of that news several months ago. Get used to it folks.
I for one, am looking forward to the demise of gamestop and their used game thievery. rolleyes.gif Anyway, much whining will commence here but everyone should just get used to it. In this day and age where piracy is trivial, stuff like this will become the norm. As mentioned, this will be present on both the orbis and durango (ie all next gen consoles)
Since all of the next gen consoles are focused on digital distribution, it really is not a surprise. This is not dissimilar to itunes where you can use the content on your own devices but you can't freely sell or trade your wares to others. Steam, same thing. You get a license to play it on your devices, and yours alone.

This is where a disservice is done to all of us. The attitude that something unjust is happening with a defeated attitude never allows for victory. On the other hand a proactive approach to preventing such things seem to work out with much better consequences.
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post #445 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

This is where a disservice is done to all of us. The attitude that something unjust is happening with a defeated attitude never allows for victory. On the other hand a proactive approach to preventing such things seem to work out with much better consequences.

EXACTLY. What sort of nonsense is that? "Well the multi-milliionaire bigwigs say it's for the best and it's going to happen, so we should just lay down and accept it." I'm glad you weren't an advocate during the Revolutionary War. "The King says the taxes are to support us all since we're so far away from him. He needs more money to enforce his laws over here." doh.gif

How about this. This isn't a matter of law, it's consumer politics. WE are the consumers and most don't like it, regardless of whether or not we've resigned ourselves that it may still happen. People need to stop being cowards and stand up for what we want. If they said the next iPhone would be biometrically locked and every carrier would have to require a 3 year term for the phone, i'd bet we'd see riots in the streets from the Apple crowd.

A basic concept is still being overlooked, and ignored. Consoles are NOT PCS. They're more powerful the the SNES of old, sure, but they're still not a PC. They're meant primarily for gaming with added features to make it more accomodating as an entertainment system. Movie playback, internet access, etc etc... still not a PC. Consoles run the games from the disc. PCs store the game and install it the hard drive. Once you lock the game to your account, once you tire of it, it's just a useless disc gathering dust. You can't even give it away. That, is wrong. It's wrong on PC, and it'll be wrong on console as well. First-sale doctrine, ToS, EULA... all are not excuses to remove the point of BUYING something. "You're just buying the license to use this instance of it for now." (Subject to be removed without notice...) Just because they've been doing it for a while doesn't make it ok or right.

I don't have time to write an effective petition, or several as instances arise, but you can bet i'll sign every one in support of consumer freedoms. If the CEO of Sony or EA doesn't make his bonus this year, he can come to my cramped 2 bedroom apartment and tell me how hard he has it...
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post #446 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partol View Post

A right to do something does not give you a right to violate other laws (in order to exercise your rights).
Fair use rights and Back up copy rights does not give you any rights to violate the Digital Millenium Act.
If you violate the Digital Millenium Act (for any reason), you can be prosecuted, even if you were just trying to exercise your fair use and backup copy rights.
If you have a good excuse, maybe the judge/prosecutor/jury will be lenient or maybe not.

If there's contradicting laws, then which do you follow?

Do you follow the law that says you can?
-or-
Do you follow the law that says you can't?

You're acting as if there's only one law, but there isn't, there's two. And they conflict each other. Technically, if you go to court ( and the judge isn't already bought out by the MPAA, RIAA ) then you can say you were exercising your right to Fair Use. They can't say you weren't because it's law, regardless of what the DMCA says, there is a law that says you can. Welcome to The Gray Zone.

The only time the DMCA would come after you for backing movies anyways, is if you were doing it for other people, advertising it or making and selling copies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

A basic concept is still being overlooked, and ignored. Consoles are NOT PCS.

Can you tell that to my XBOX, PS2 and PS3 with Linux on them? They seem to be confused frown.gif
post #447 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor958 View Post

If they said the next iPhone would be biometrically locked and every carrier would have to require a 3 year term for the phone, i'd bet we'd see riots in the streets from the Apple crowd.

Probably not.

lol.
 
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post #448 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

This is where a disservice is done to all of us. The attitude that something unjust is happening with a defeated attitude never allows for victory. On the other hand a proactive approach to preventing such things seem to work out with much better consequences.

Yada yada yada yada. The same thing happens with steam, itunes, origin, and I can name at least 20 other things with the same deal.

Where's the outcry? Whatever. Vote with your wallet if you don't like it and in the meantime, you'll pay for games on steam which does the same thing and not say a word. The main loser in all of this are used game sellers such as gamestop, for which I have no love. They can go out of business for all I care.

I forsee both consoles tying games to an account, similar to steam. If you need to re-download it, that isn't a problem but it will still be tied to your account. What you can't do is buy a used game from gamestop and expect it to work, and I really don't care about that. Personally, I don't plan on purchasing either of the new consoles.
Edited by xoleras - 1/9/13 at 11:53am
post #449 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

If there's contradicting laws, then which do you follow?
Do you follow the law that says you can?
-or-
Do you follow the law that says you can't?

Which law grants you a right to hack or to circumvent technological safeguards/barriers/protections?
I am not aware of such a law.

You are legally free to exericse fair use rights and backup copy rights, as long as you don't violate any other laws.

If you think the Digital Millenium Act (DMA) should be invalid, then ok, maybe it should be invalid.
But, in absolutely no way what-so-ever, do fair use rights and backup copy rights give you legal permission to ignore or override the DMA.

The only exception I can think of is .... if the technological protections prevent you from exercising fair use or making a backup copy, then in that situation, it might be legally permissible to circumvent protections, in order to make a backup copy or to obtain a small sample for fair use purposes (such as a screenshot).
Edited by Partol - 1/9/13 at 12:24pm
     
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post #450 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

If there's contradicting laws, then which do you follow?
Do you follow the law that says you can?
-or-
Do you follow the law that says you can't?
You're acting as if there's only one law, but there isn't, there's two. And they conflict each other. Technically, if you go to court ( and the judge isn't already bought out by the MPAA, RIAA ) then you can say you were exercising your right to Fair Use. They can't say you weren't because it's law, regardless of what the DMCA says, there is a law that says you can. Welcome to The Gray Zone.
The only time the DMCA would come after you for backing movies anyways, is if you were doing it for other people, advertising it or making and selling copies.
Can you tell that to my XBOX, PS2 and PS3 with Linux on them? They seem to be confused frown.gif
That is not a gray zone. That is a zone where you've got the right to backup your software, but you can't break the law to do so. You have freedom of speech, but it's still illegal to shoot the guy with the microphone so that you can exercise it.
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