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[IGN] New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games - Page 51

post #501 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBrogbo View Post

Yes, cartridges were expensive! N64 games could be $70-80 as well, while the direct competitor, PS1, sold games for $50 at the most, and yet everyone was still able to make money.

Manufacturing costs were a HUGE part in many older consoles. You need to stop ignoring that.

Accounting for inflation, SNES games during that era would cost 150$-200$ now. So the net effect is that we are paying less for games now than we did back then.
post #502 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Ad hominems? I'm just stating that are not being completely truthful. Anyone else that was around back then would also attest to this, new SNES games did not cost 30$ at release.

http://www.ign.com/games/final-fantasy-iii-us/snes-6865

Originally released as Final Fantasy III on the Super NES outside of Japan, this game is in fact Final Fantasy VI from the main series chronology of this massively popular RPG franchise.
30$ , yeah okay if you say so.

http://fantasyanime.com/finalfantasy/ff6/ff6about.htm
http://guildedage.net/blog/articles/final-rant-asy/
To say that FF3 was 30$ upon release is absurd. If you were around then you know that isn't true.
I already admitted the internet suggested the price was higher than I stated. You're trying to prove me wrong using information I've already given you. It doesn't change what I paid for it. I happened to purchase it in the closest large retail store in the US to the primary point of entry for all Asian imports. That may have been a factor in the pricing. It may not have been. All I know is the cash I paid for it at that time. Believe me, or don't. Your belief does not matter to me.

And yes, calling someone a liar or disingenuous is an ad hominem attack.
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post #503 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBrogbo View Post

I hope you're being sarcastic. You DON'T remember when book production was that way? How much do you think it cost publishers to push out the latest Grisham novel, or Stephen King novel? Back when the only way to get it was a physical book store, each of the thousands of which needed to have a hundred or so copies on hand.
There are maybe 5 franchises on that level in the video game world. There are dozens that are 8-digit cost video games yearly.
Quote:
You have continually quoted that Pong was $50 back in the day. Actually it was $100, but it was a console! Not only that, but it's widely regarded as the first console. Are you really going to cite that as a valid price comparison?

Pong was unprecedented. It was made in small quantities by factories that hadn't done video game systems before, and sold to a small audience. The central processing chip in the Pong system was also the most technologically advanced chip that had ever been sold to home markets. It had to be. Not true for today's games.
Was talking about Atari 2600 Pong, it was $50. Atari 2600 games were almost all $50.
Quote:
Fast forward almost 40 years to today, and you refuse to admit that manufacturing efficiency improvements,
True.
Quote:
exponentially larger customer base (economies of scale),
True, but not nearly that much larger when you consider inflation.
Quote:
drastically increased knowledge of programming (compare any 1-man indie developed game to the teams that worked on Atari games, complexity-wise),
Compare the salaries while you're at it. And don't try to argue they're too high, it's very much a skilled workforce that can get paid just as much elsewhere.
Quote:
ridiculously cheaper media (CDs, DVDs, digital distribution), cheaper console production costs (comparatively) etc etc,
Again, true.
Quote:
mean the price should be lower at all?
See bolded and then add in advertising costs. Ignoring those two you'd have a case, but not all costs have gone down.
Quote:
You are deluding yourself if you think this is the way the market should go. Enacting this no-used-games thing will shrink Sony's customer base. Raising prices will shrink Sony's customer base. Doing both will be catastrophic for the company.
Not nearly as much as you think it will.
Quote:
The sales impact from price increases is exponential. A 10% increase in price will mean a larger than 10% decline in sales. The inverse is true too. When Steam put the original Left 4 Dead for sale at 50% off, they saw a 3000% increase in sales.
True, but that's why the market price descends with time. Stopping used game sales gives full control of this to the publishers and they can react to decreased sales with lowered prices more effectively. Men far more seasoned in economics than either of us are pulling the strings here.

Also remember that a HUGE portion of Valve's profits are not from their own games. They're not a typical developer because of Steam, and unless you want the Steam/Origin/UPlay/Blizzard model to come to every publisher (lessening the worth of each individually), don't try to hold their practices to the rest of the industry.
Quote:
It sucks that major corporations' only response to low profits seems to be to raise prices. I will never pay $70 for a video game. I have never paid $60 for a game. I have never even paid $50 for a game. Granted I may not be Sony's target market (despite the fact that I own every single one of their consoles and probably 100 games for them), but shouldn't Sony be trying to draw in extra customers, rather than pushing away current ones?
A hard truth of consumer products is that not all customers are equal. Look at SOE's recent comments on Planetside 2: "And the way we see it is that the 90% of players who don’t pay are making the game fun for the 10% that do." Yes, they go on to say they're "equal", but they're "equal" because the ftp players act as content for the 10%. There are better examples, but I just went with the one I knew would be easiest to find.
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post #504 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Shortened.

All very good points. I guess it remains to be seen which direction the market goes in with this move.

If enacting this allows developers and companies to reduce their prices, and they actually do it, then I'm all for it. However, I fear the reality will turn out to be more unfortunate, and game makers will keep prices stagnant, or even increase them.

I doubt I'll be taking part in this next console generation at all unless something mind-blowing comes out, but if the latter of the above scenarios comes to be true, I'll still be rather annoyed.

Really though, what they ought to do is not prevent systems from playing used games, but charge a $10 fee or something. That way, 2nd and 3rd generation owners still have to send some money to developers, but customers will still be able to save a few bucks on games if they want to. Otherwise, "$60 or no game" will turn out for most people to be "no game."
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post #505 of 545
Well, it doesn't look like I will be owning another Sony product besides my PS3. When you purchase a game, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it as long at it stay within the legal spectrum. In my apartment it is virtually all Panasonic products.
post #506 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkizzy View Post

Well, it doesn't look like I will be owning another Sony product besides my PS3. When you purchase a game, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it as long at it stay within the legal spectrum. In my apartment it is virtually all Panasonic products.

Tell that to steam, itunes, origin, and anything else.

The xbox 720 will have the same thing , BTW
post #507 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

I already admitted the internet suggested the price was higher than I stated. You're trying to prove me wrong using information I've already given you. It doesn't change what I paid for it. I happened to purchase it in the closest large retail store in the US to the primary point of entry for all Asian imports. That may have been a factor in the pricing. It may not have been. All I know is the cash I paid for it at that time. Believe me, or don't. Your belief does not matter to me.

And yes, calling someone a liar or disingenuous is an ad hominem attack.

Oh. Okay. 30$, sure you did. Except the MSRP at every store was 80$ - unless you bought a pirated version or chinese import you did not pay 30$ for a new retail box at release. Maybe used? Maybe 2 years after release? It definitely wasn't 30$ at release in terms of MSRP.

You state you were around during those times, but it is highly suspicious. SNES games costing a lot is quite common knowledge to anyone around during that time, and 60-80$ games were the norm at release. FF1-3 retailed for 74.99-79.99 at release,30$ just was not possible unless it was a very old game in the bargain bin, or used, period.
Edited by xoleras - 1/15/13 at 6:50am
post #508 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Oh. Okay. 30$, sure you did. Except the MSRP at every store was 80$ - unless you bought a pirated version or chinese import you did not pay 30$ for a new retail box at release. Maybe used? Maybe 2 years after release? It definitely wasn't 30$ at release in terms of MSRP.

You state you were around during those times, but it is highly suspicious. SNES games costing a lot is quite common knowledge to anyone around during that time, and 60-80$ games were the norm at release. FF1-3 retailed for 74.99-79.99 at release,30$ just was not possible unless it was a very old game in the bargain bin, or used, period.

Considering that N64/PS1 games went for 49.99 when I was a kid I have no idea where you are getting your information.
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post #509 of 545
i remember when goldeneye64 came out it was 65 bucks in canada so he's not to far off.
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post #510 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post

Considering that N64/PS1 games went for 49.99 when I was a kid I have no idea where you are getting your information.


I'm getting my information from the fact that I bought my SNES games new, at MSRP. Apparently, You weren't. I bought my games at release from Toys r us, wal mart, electronics botique, babbages ,and they all sold release games for MSRP. SF2 Turbo MSRP was 74.99. Chrono trigger was 79.99. FF3 was 79.99 MSRP as well. I could go on and on with this, the MSRP for SNES games was very high, and software prices are significantly cheaper now than they were 2 decades ago.. Its no secret that PS1 games were cheaper due to the media (CD vs cartridge,) and N64 attempted to match those prices to compete.

Read the comments on this page:

http://www.1up.com/news/90s-game-price-comparison-charticle

Again. I was buying games during that era for the SNES. From the sound of it, you didn't. I have a good idea of what brand new release titles were selling for.
Edited by xoleras - 1/15/13 at 3:24pm
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