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[WCCF]AMD Launching 28nm Kaveri APU with Steamroller Cores in 2H 2013 - Page 8

post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

I think that's more geared towards the mobile market, same as the power consumptiom improvements and on chip vrm stuff...But it would help with hsa in case it went mainstream too biggrin.gif

All immediate benefit of IGPU development at this phase are for mobile market anyway (except Hybrid Crossfire for AMD and Quick Sync for Intel), HSA is the thing that will make IGPU performance relevant in the high end PC market.
Edited by sherlock - 2/17/13 at 1:52pm
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post #72 of 106
I though HSA was an architecture that allowed greater CPU+GPU computing, such as image recognition?

In image recognition on standard hardware, either the GPU or CPU can be used, but not both. Initially, the GPU has the advantage because it could processor thousands of pictures at a time, but as the pool of unanalyzed pictures decrease and more dead-ends occur, the CPU has the advantage. With HSA, it could switch from GPU to CPU. And that's just one example of HSA usage.

AMD knows it can't win a CPU performance war against Intel, so it attempts to push for more usages of GPU computing in common tasks.
post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnetonka16 View Post

Well if it's anything like their MOR CORS phase then they're not going to be improving much.

Otherwise, nothing.

My head hurts so much.

APUs are the future in mainstream/portable/HTPC computing. I fail to see them as something bad.

Richland comes with a worst-case scenario 20% performance bump over Trinity. Kaveri comes with probably double that, as it renews CPU, GPU and IMC architecture.

AMD is improving their APUs at a far, far larger rate than Intel can even come close to with their mainstream solutions.
   
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post #74 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

My head hurts so much.

APUs are the future in mainstream/portable/HTPC computing. I fail to see them as something bad.

Richland comes with a worst-case scenario 20% performance bump over Trinity. Kaveri comes with probably double that, as it renews CPU, GPU and IMC architecture.

AMD is improving their APUs at a far, far larger rate than Intel can even come close to with their mainstream solutions.

I'd be very impressed if Richland's CPU is more than 10% faster than Trinity's. Graphics wise I'm definitely hoping for 30% or more though.

Source on Kaveri including an IMC redesign? It's something AMD desperately needs but last I heard it's been planned for Excavator.
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post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

My head hurts so much.

APUs are the future in mainstream/portable/HTPC computing. I fail to see them as something bad.

Richland comes with a worst-case scenario 20% performance bump over Trinity. Kaveri comes with probably double that, as it renews CPU, GPU and IMC architecture.

AMD is improving their APUs at a far, far larger rate than Intel can even come close to with their mainstream solutions.

What AMD will have to contend with is that Intel mainstream CPUs will continue to be much smaller in die size while packing a higher transistor count due Intel's 1-1.5 node edge in die shrink (246mm^2 & 1.3Billion for 5800K, 160 mm^2 & 1.4 Billion for 3770K, a chip that sells for almost 3X the price while taking 2/3 the silicon to produce), as long as the die shrink gap exist(it is also growing) AMD CPU products will consume more power for the same performance, while also cost more silicon to build which enlarges the profit margin gap(which influences the R&D budget gap).

AMD currently have the ATI graphic expertise and experience in driver development, however Intel might eventually close the gap in driver quality(just like AtI/AMD caught up to Nvidia in drivers) and their die shrink edge could be leveraged to overwhelm APUs with more & more efficient transistors.
Edited by sherlock - 2/17/13 at 3:09pm
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post #76 of 106
Not to mention that Intel has a major marketing advantage over AMD. Not many people know that AMD exists, nevertheless their APUs.

Intel on the other hand, is throwing a significant sum of money at the ultrabook advertising, which of course features their CPU.
post #77 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

What AMD will have to contend with is that Intel mainstream CPUs will continue to be much smaller in die size while packing a higher transistor count due Intel's 1-1.5 node edge in die shrink (246mm^2 & 1.3Billion for 5800K, 160 mm^2 & 1.4 Billion for 3770K, a chip that sells for almost 3X the price while taking 2/3 the silicon to produce), as long as the die shrink gap exist(it is also growing) AMD CPU products will consume more power for the same performance, while also cost more silicon to build which enlarges the profit margin gap(which influences the R&D budget gap).

AMD currently have the ATI graphic expertise and experience in driver development, however Intel might eventually close the gap in driver quality(just like AtI/AMD caught up to Nvidia in drivers) and their die shrink edge could be leveraged to overwhelm APUs with more & more efficient transistors.

Yes the die shrink uses less silicon but it is more expensive to produce each chip the smaller it gets. So if prices stay the same for intel they will make less with each die shrink.
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post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoray View Post

Yes the die shrink uses less silicon but it is more expensive to produce each chip the smaller it gets. So if prices stay the same for intel they will make less with each die shrink.

Not completely true, the process will be expensive to implement at first but after it matures the yields goes up and cost comes down, Intel currently stay on the same process for 3 years(main stream 2 years, High-end processors gets there 1 year late but stays for 1 extra year). If die shrink always increase overall chip production cost Intel wouldn't spend that much(4 billion alone for the 14nm fab in Ireland, one of 3 14nm fabs) on staying ahead of everyone else in fab process.
Edited by sherlock - 2/17/13 at 4:14pm
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post #79 of 106
The main issue that Intel has, is that it must sell enough silicon chips to justify so many expensive fabs. A large portion of its profits come from the server chips, but if it can't sell enough, then they would have to shut down the fabs.

And ARM is for sure not going to allow Intel sell more CPUs without a fight.
post #80 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

The main issue that Intel has, is that it must sell enough silicon chips to justify so many expensive fabs. A large portion of its profits come from the server chips, but if it can't sell enough, then they would have to shut down the fabs.

And ARM is for sure not going to allow Intel sell more CPUs without a fight.
Or even AMD for a fact. Although i never really liked intel (I build intel configurations for friends all the time if that's what they want) i really want to see more competition, their IGP doesn't even come close to what AMD already has
Plus GT3 only comes 15% close to HD7660D, what is 15% close? Well to put into fair comparison GT3 probably is what you will find in a i5-i7. The i3s are getting GT1s for sure thus Intel is getting arsekicked again on the iGPU race
Edited by DaveLT - 2/17/13 at 5:07pm
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