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AMD Richland A10-6800K APU thread - Page 122

post #1211 of 1389
So I tried to go for 4Ghz at 1.272V but after soon after boot it crashed. What's different now is that the CPU now runs at 1.264-1.272V at 3.8Ghz all the time while previously it never went past 1.224V at the same frequency. Why the change? I'm quite sure everything else is set the same as before. Did I somehow damage the CPU?

EDIT:
Nevermind, I figured it out. Previously I was always running Prime in the background when looking at the voltage. The last couple of times I checked it was without prime. So basically if I run the CPU with prime when its like 100% load the CPU runs at lower voltage then when its idling at the same frequency!? I guess that this is some auto temperature saving feature when the CPU is at full stress?
Edited by boolsheat - 1/24/14 at 4:08pm
post #1212 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by boolsheat View Post

So I tried to go for 4Ghz at 1.272V but after soon after boot it crashed. What's different now is that the CPU now runs at 1.264-1.272V at 3.8Ghz all the time while previously it never went past 1.224V at the same frequency. Why the change? I'm quite sure everything else is set the same as before. Did I somehow damage the CPU?

EDIT:
Nevermind, I figured it out. Previously I was always running Prime in the background when looking at the voltage. The last couple of times I checked it was without prime. So basically if I run the CPU with prime when its like 100% load the CPU runs at lower voltage then when its idling at the same frequency!? I guess that this is some auto temperature saving feature when the CPU is at full stress?
Voltage droop.
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post #1213 of 1389
boolsheat,

When you run Prime, it increases the electrical load substantially. The voltage to the chip sags due to resistance. It has nothing to do with a "feature" it is just a consequence of imperfect conductivity. The voltage regulation circuit on the motherboard is constantly monitoring and attempting to compensate for the change in load. The aggressiveness of that attempt to correct for voltage sag under a load can be adjusted on most motherboards with a setting called "load-line calibration." You should have this feature under the "OC Tweaker" in BIOS. You should experiment with the LLC settings available to see which offers the tightest voltage regulation when transitioning from idle to load state. (but still erring on the side of sagging, rather than rising). Very aggressive LLC settings will sometimes cause the voltage to RISE when a workload is applied. This can be counterproductive to achieving an efficient overclock.

You're in the conservative zone here for voltages. At default settings many boards will run the chip at 1.40V.


If you're bumping into stability limitations but still able to boot with ~1.225V under load at 4.0ghz, then you may have your baseline more or less figured out already. Manually set the voltage to 1.30V, and begin testing your LLC settings. When you have figured out which setting holds voltage the tightest from idle to load, you'll have the upper hand in finding an efficient clock/voltage setting that improves performance without causing thermal problems.

I can't recall if you mentioned, are you on the factory heatsink or something else?
     
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post #1214 of 1389
Oh, really didn't know about these things, so this is called voltage droop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_droop

Well I don't have any LLC settings available unfortunately in BIOS. I wonder what is the default setting?

Yes, I'm on the stock cooler and fan.

I was still having some issues with RAM, I'm not sure if the NB or RAM voltage was too low. Now I'm at 1.25V for NB and 1.67V for RAM as I can't set the voltage for RAM to 1.65V, the BIOS only allows me 1.57V, 1.62V 1.67V, 1.72V so fine tuning will be quite hard.

Does it really matter if RAM has a higher voltage? I wonder in what relation are NB and RAM voltage when it comes to stability.

I think I'll set the NB voltage a bit higher, set RAM to 1.62V and run memtest so I'll see if RAM can work safe at 1.62V. Then I'll know that the problem was NB voltage and not RAM.
post #1215 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by boolsheat View Post

Oh, really didn't know about these things, so this is called voltage droop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_droop

Well I don't have any LLC settings available unfortunately in BIOS. I wonder what is the default setting?

Yes, I'm on the stock cooler and fan.

I was still having some issues with RAM, I'm not sure if the NB or RAM voltage was too low. Now I'm at 1.25V for NB and 1.67V for RAM as I can't set the voltage for RAM to 1.65V, the BIOS only allows me 1.57V, 1.62V 1.67V, 1.72V so fine tuning will be quite hard.

Does it really matter if RAM has a higher voltage? I wonder in what relation are NB and RAM voltage when it comes to stability.

I think I'll set the NB voltage a bit higher, set RAM to 1.62V and run memtest so I'll see if RAM can work safe at 1.62V. Then I'll know that the problem was NB voltage and not RAM.
Couple of things:

1: Voltage droop without LLC causes some confusion. Technically max temp is the concern over max voltage. LN2 runs/suicide runs go to 2.0V, not something we would even attempt for daily use. But for instance: My 8350 for 4.84Ghz needs ~1.48V. Without LLC I need to account for Vdroop and at that speed it is about .06V so I need to set Bios voltage to 1.54V. For a lot of 8350 Users above 5.0Ghz ANd no LLC they must run above 1.55V to adjust for Vdroop which can range anywhere from .04-.1V. Only reason I mention this is the loose max V of 1.55V max that was stated early on. Of course now we know the issue is the heat more so than Voltage. Some are running 1.7-V daily to account for Vdroop and no dead chips yet. Degradation is unknown for now.

2: Memory for JDEC standards states that up to 1.93V must be able to be used with no permanent damage to the memory module, just doesn't have to be able to run stable there. So you could safely run in the 1.75V range with little issue.
post #1216 of 1389
So basically it doesn't matter if memory modules are running at 0.2 higher voltage. The modules will just get a bit warmer?
post #1217 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by boolsheat View Post

So basically it doesn't matter if memory modules are running at 0.2 higher voltage. The modules will just get a bit warmer?
Not sure if anyone has had heat issues with todays RAM. But I gather that has more to do with speed. At 1866 and lower prob not a lot of heat. But 2400 and some Volts may create a bit, just haven't seen anyone mention it.
post #1218 of 1389
Hey Everyone,

I'd like to join the club with my very first AMD build and in effect my very first APU.

Specs:
A10-6800K(stock) @ stock volts
Asrock FM2A85X-itx
Mushkin Blackline Ridgeback 996991 running at 1866MHz on XMP settings but was around 2133MHz manually set in BIOS until the unit went really hot.
Crucial M4 128GB ssd
Toshiba 1TB 2.5" HDD
Thermaltake Litepower 450W PSU
Connected to Del U2311H + HP LA2306x

^ all assembled on a table top.

any tips on how I can under volt it? I don't play games on it and am running the stock cooler. Will hopefully transition to a Loneindustires L2 case and cram it all in there.
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post #1219 of 1389
My Asrock FM2A85X-itx is now dead and I'll be moving forward with a RMA process with Newegg. I actually think the board is broken, since no matter what I did in the BIOS(undervolting) the temps would skyrocket on my stock cooler even under idles.

Initially came with BIOS 1.2 and I updated to 1,6 without issues, however I noticed the fan on the stock cooler wouldn't ramp up when my APU would throttle to Turbo frequencies. I also tired disabling Turbo mode, IOMMU and the sata IDE mode

Is it the fault of the APU or meself or something else? I was hoping Asrock had reworked their QC and had a great reputation, would anyone here suggest I take another route apart from Asrock, since i may just get a new board altogether in a mitx form factor.

I could also learn the ins and outs, but up until now, I haven't been able to locate a good undervolting guide for those running at stock speeds/turbo modes yet on 2133MHz rams. if I should reiterate, does the NB clocks and voltages matter for running 2133MHz?
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post #1220 of 1389
NB clock must be higher than ram. At stock NB should be enough to cover 2133 and only requires extra voltage if you populate all ram slots, 4 not 2.
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