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post #41 of 1389
Kaveri isn't worth the upgrade, better to get richland and the APU that comes after Kaveri
Kaveri is being released on FM2 Platform, so you would think "I should wait."
The reason you may want to skip Kaveri is since its shipping on FM2, it will still be DDR3.
The APU after Kaveri will use DDR4 which will be a more substantial performance increase for both GPU and CPU parts of the APU.
Richland uses VL5W + PileDriver. Kaveri will use GCN + Steamroller.
I don't think GCN will make much difference for FPS, Steamroller cores will be nice, but anyone who buys this APU is either wants a gaming or entertainment station.
Edited by ericore - 2/22/13 at 3:58pm
post #42 of 1389
Umm, no. GCN will make a HUGE difference clock for clock. IPC will probably be better, hopefully. FPU will get a boost probably. And for god's sake trinity and richland uses VLIW4!
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post #43 of 1389
i think i am going to skip this and wait for kaveri...
post #44 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericore View Post

Kaveri isn't worth the upgrade, better to get richland and the APU that comes after Kaveri
Kaveri is being released on FM2 Platform, so you would think "I should wait."
The reason you may want to skip Kaveri is since its shipping on FM2, it will still be DDR3.
The APU after Kaveri will use DDR4 which will be a more substantial performance increase for both GPU and CPU parts of the APU.
Richland uses VL5W + PileDriver. Kaveri will use GCN + Steamroller.
I don't think GCN will make much difference for FPS, Steamroller cores will be nice, but anyone who buys this APU is either wants a gaming or entertainment station.

AMD said that fm2 will be supported at least until excavator, so I would expect to wait a little longer than you are figuring for ddr4. Richland uses vliw4 which is better suited than vliw5 for on die graphics, where on earth are you getting your information?
Edited by spatulator - 2/22/13 at 8:29pm
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post #45 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by spatulator View Post

I dont expect GCN...



If Richland was using GCN, AMD would be saying so here in this slide. They show Kaveri having GCN, I expect Richland to use the same VLIW4 arch as Trinity. In fact, they are calling it 2nd generation. Notice that Trinity is referred to as 2nd generation? The whole platform is being shown here as being in the same generation category as Trinity.

If they aren't using GCN what's the point of refreshing the line? Might as well wait for Kaveri.
Edited by Deadboy90 - 2/23/13 at 4:00pm
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post #46 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadboy90 View Post

If they aren't using GCN what's the point of refreshing the line? Might as well wait for Kaveri.
20-40% increase in graphics performance? That's quite a big improvement over Trinity, so this will give OEM's a newer and better product for their machines before summer back to school sales. It may be 9+ months before we even see Kaveri released to OEM's, and it could be until next year before Kaveri hits store shelves. So Richland is a perfect chip to help keep AMD's APU line rolling between now and then.
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post #47 of 1389
VLIW4 = Radeon 5000 series
VLIW5 = Radeon 6000 series
GCN = Radeon 7000 series

Fact: Numerous leaks indicate significant performance improvements (we know it can't be the CPU, and it can't simply better power management, and we know the core count is the same, the core clock received something 84mhz boost which can't possibly give 20% better FPS.
1. That's how you can logically deduce that Richland uses VLIW5, because is the only thing that is consistent with the claim.
2. You'll notice the slide says "2nd generation directx 11 GPU". The first gen was Radeon 5000 series, so it follows that this is Radeon 6000 series AKA VLIW5


Also AMD did not state it would use FM2 for 2 years, what it stated was that it has committed to use sockets for at least 2 more years. Seems like a short window for a new socket, but then again it didn't take long to release FM2 after FM1, so don't be surprised if they release at least 1 more socket for APUs, but Kaveri will work with FM2 and will be released 2013 Q4.

Intel is releasing DDR4 with broadwell in 2014. It's impossible to foresee whether AMD will be able to do so in 2014, but if they miss that window your probably looking at Q2-Q3 of 2015.
It really doesn't matter whether AMD releases this with or without a socket, the point is the APU will be much more efficient regardless due to DDR4 being more than twice as fast.
post #48 of 1389
*facepalm* 2nd gen IGPs not discrete cards. It uses VLIW4 for god's sake even AMD said it themselves, are you being a idiot?
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post #49 of 1389
If you're wondering why AMD went with vliw4 vs vliw5 for trinity, (and presumably for Richland too), here's a THG article that explains it http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-4600m-trinity-piledriver,3202-3.html. If youre wondering where the performance boost of 20-40% for Richland comes from, take the clock speed increase (800-840mhz= 5%)...and add the gains from 2133mhz ddr3 support...viola. If there is some front end memory sharing or bus enhancements that would be the icing on the cake. Its good that there will be a better chip available, but this really is a "in between" kind of stop gap until kaveri comes out. But if its reasonably priced and youre building a new light gaming system, why not...should be a good option.

You have to assume that AMD is going to tout this new chip in the most positive way possible. I read that the 40% they are throwing out there is referring to their low power notebook chips, which makes sense because Richland is supposed to be more power effecient which manifests itself as a performance increase in 25-35 watt cpus. There are many different ways to configure desktop Richland's graphics with different memory speeds...AMD's statistics are showing, lets say 20% for the desktop 6800... this could be based on a comparision of a trinity build with 1600mhz memory vs a Richland build with 2133mhz memory. That would certainly account for the other 15%.
Edited by spatulator - 2/24/13 at 11:44am
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post #50 of 1389
Quote:
Originally Posted by spatulator View Post

If you're wondering why AMD went with vliw4 vs vliw5 for trinity, (and presumably for Richland too), here's a THG article that explains it http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-4600m-trinity-piledriver,3202-3.html. If youre wondering where the performance boost of 20-40% for Richland comes from, take the clock speed increase (800-840mhz= 5%)...and add the gains from 2133mhz ddr3 support...viola. If there is some front end memory sharing or bus enhancements that would be the icing on the cake. Its good that there will be a better chip available, but this really is a "in between" kind of stop gap until kaveri comes out. But if its reasonably priced and youre building a new light gaming system, why not...should be a good option.

You have to assume that AMD is going to tout this new chip in the most positive way possible. I read that the 40% they are throwing out there is referring to their low power notebook chips, which makes sense because Richland is supposed to be more power effecient which manifests itself as a performance increase in 25-35 watt cpus. There are many different ways to configure desktop Richland's graphics with different memory speeds...AMD's statistics are showing, lets say 20% for the desktop 6800... this could be based on a comparision of a trinity build with 1600mhz memory vs a Richland build with 2133mhz memory. That would certainly account for the other 15%.
Once you purchase 2133Mhz ram,and OC it with the GPU,it is kind of pointless to be upgrading to Richland unless AMD improved the lacking IMC performance or allow for a better graphics card in Dual Graphics mode. I would even consider Richland as a nice upgrade from my 5800K if Richland has a lower TDP. If Kaveri is FM2 it will be a worthy upgrade,but there will probably be new motherboards for it by then. I'd like to see some GDDR3 or GDDR5 GPU ram cache on the motherboard,it would make for an epic IGPU.
Edited by Heavy MG - 2/24/13 at 1:24pm
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