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[Kotaku] The Lead Writer Of Dragon Age Largely Avoids BioWare’s ‘Increasingly Toxic’ Forums - Page 6

post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post

And apparently he's missing the point, if people are unhappy with your product then you have failed. Writing a blog, crying about them being unhappy makes him seem like a weenie. biggrin.gif The whole point of his writeup was to cry about the forums being so toxic... don't make crap games and the forums won't be so toxic. It's not the fans fault they don't like it, it's the developers.

It's obvious to me, that these guys don't really care about people liking their product that much and just want to cash in a paycheck. Good companies will see the backlash and outcry and say to themselves, 'oh crap, we screwed up!' Then proceed to make it right somehow, not complain about the complainers.

It's not just about the Bioware forums, though. What he describes is a lot of communities on the internet. Let's take OCN's news section for example. Whenever a news thread pops up about mostly any video game or video game console, the majority of the people commenting on the thread simply whine about the game. It makes it hard for someone who might have something constructive to say to actually say what's on their mind. The moment they do, the people whining will tear you apart for not feeling the same way they do. The amount of people who simply flame increases because that's all they see around them, since anyone who had something constructive to say is avoiding this unnecessary drama. It happens elsewhere too, such as youtube videos where the comment section is full of people fighting each other, which makes it hard for someone to say something nice or constructive towards the creator of the video.

You might not see what he's talking about because you might be part of the problem (I don't know that, but your attitude makes it seem like it's possible). It's not just harmful for people like Gaider, but the communities themselves. I've seen this kind of thing destroy a forum, which was once one a huge thriving community and is now only 3-5 people talking to each other in a single off-topic thread.

It is a problem whether you think the whining is justified or not.
Edited by moocowman - 1/14/13 at 7:49am
post #52 of 60
I believe it is healthy to not be active in a worldly user forum as a writer. It is too easy to get fixed on a single comment, and most often an extreme comment, and forget about the more important concerns and feedback. This is why most game forums have a volunteer based moderation team which both help to control abusive posts but also to organize feedback posts when a Dev asks for community feedback. Isolate what is real and important from the nasty.

Especially as a writer whom should be writing and building worlds and not fixated on what User1337 said about how much they hated the emblem on a random shield.
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post #53 of 60
I think I'm mostly on the side of Gaider, since the storyline is hardly what turns me away from Bioware games, or any game for that matter. Afterall how could I know the storyline is bad or good without playing it for myself.

What has turned me off of some Bioware games is the gameplay. Rehashing maps, levels, character models and idiot-proof spam-a-thon combat just doesn't sit well with me personally. I'd like to see every level customized, every character unique and the combat system have extreme depth and customization.

Most of their devs and writers aren't simply "out for the money" especially since theyre owned by ea... they get nothing
From my perspective, their team does a great job molding the crap they have to work with into something memorable and fun
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post #54 of 60
Why does he call himself a developer? Writers write... And, Bioware writers are of the same kin that suggested we have a"skip gameplay" button and admitted "I don't play videogames".
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post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

It's not just about the Bioware forums, though. What he describes is a lot of communities on the internet. Let's take OCN's news section for example. Whenever a news thread pops up about mostly any video game or video game console, the majority of the people commenting on the thread simply whine about the game. It makes it hard for someone who might have something constructive to say to actually say what's on their mind. The moment they do, the people whining will tear you apart for not feeling the same way they do. The amount of people who simply flame increases because that's all they see around them, since anyone who had something constructive to say is avoiding this unnecessary drama. It happens elsewhere too, such as youtube videos where the comment section is full of people fighting each other, which makes it hard for someone to say something nice or constructive towards the creator of the video.

You might not see what he's talking about because you might be part of the problem (I don't know that, but your attitude makes it seem like it's possible). It's not just harmful for people like Gaider, but the communities themselves. I've seen this kind of thing destroy a forum, which was once one a huge thriving community and is now only 3-5 people talking to each other in a single off-topic thread.

It is a problem whether you think the whining is justified or not.

people disagree about things. the best solution is obviously not censorship, so you just have to deal with people having differing opinions. that's part of being an adult and living in an open society
post #56 of 60
Isn't he supposed to steer away from public anyway ? Specifically for a writer, not to be influenced. As a lead writer, he should go to a cabin in the woods, spit his ideas as stories to a word document, come back and discuss them with his staff. He should completely ignore forums. Is there a thing called Interactive Content Creation or Interactive Story Development biggrin.gif

Interactive meaning, posting thoughts on forums, talking to close friends and form your content or stories according to reactions. That's stupid at this point. After 3 games, he should know what and not to do. Do the screenwriters run around asking for help and ideas biggrin.gif
Edited by Catscratch - 1/14/13 at 11:01am
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post #57 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post

And apparently he's missing the point, if people are unhappy with your product then you have failed.
Not really. It's impossible to make everyone happy.
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post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by moocowman View Post

All you're doing is proving him right. He actually acknowledges that people can offer good advice on forums.
For every single person who offers decent constructive advice on how to better something, there's 50 people screaming at the top of their keyboards "THIS FRIGGEN SUCKS!" and offer nothing else.

It seems I should have put TOXIC in quotes. My point was that they ignore arguments and advice that make their games better due to blind ignorance. I've seen them destroy two of my favorite games while I polity suggested alternatives. I've had one on one conversations with the developers, such as Andy Belford and NONE of them get it. We would bring up an issue that is plaguing a games progress and they would act dumbfounded as if they never knew such issue or bug existed. Or when we would suggest a change, it would get less attention than gum on the ground. So please, do not tell me "[He] acknowledges that people can offer good advice on forums."
Edited by Shmerrick - 1/14/13 at 12:55pm
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post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

people disagree about things. the best solution is obviously not censorship, so you just have to deal with people having differing opinions. that's part of being an adult and living in an open society

I never said censorship was the solution. I think people should have the responsibility to think about what they're saying and how it affects others instead of saying whatever because they're hidden behind anonymity. Having your own opinion is fine, but pushing it on other people to the point where they're discouraged from posting is not. Most official forums are full of people like this.
post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchboxDDS View Post

Most (dare I saw all?) forums are growing increasingly toxic. You've got this community of users that does most, possibly all of their socializing anonymously online and they forget how to have a respectful conversation with someone. It's hard to find a thread on this website even that doesn't have at least a few vitriolic posts!

totally agree. I find myself not even reading most of the posts on overclock because someone immediately says something totally unnecessary. for instance, "why do you have an i7 with a 6850???? OMG that is so stupid!"

well guess what noob??? my rig's first priority is making money not gaming. too many youngins here think that the primary reason to have a computer is to game. its not.

ocn is a perfect case study of a forum gone toxic.
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