Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Radiator - does the location matter?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Radiator - does the location matter? - Page 5

post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Its not just a theory it very much a practical fact. If you have ever taken off the expansion cap from a warm car you would know this. While the phenomenon is much milder in computers due to less heat and volume it is still very much real. The tubing does stretch some but that takes force and that force increases the load on the tube connections. Even if you just have a a T-line and no res you still have some air to accommodate heat expansion. As for closed AIO loop. I'm not sure it they leave some air in thous or not. As they have a good deal less liquid then custom loops it might be that they make due with just the tube flex.

Besides the fact the car cooling systen is designed to operate under pressure and it is is maybe/maybe not situation with a cooling system for a computer (no I never heard a release of pressure when the fill port cap is removed).I can run with a fill port on or off,it just does not matter

EDIT: in most cases it is simply better not to bring in automotive system theories of operation (the migration of refridgerant through hoses was one that some good could be demonstrated) when discussing most of the basic (espically cooling) systems on your computer.
Edited by PCCstudent - 1/16/13 at 11:05am
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #42 of 60
To answer the tittle of the thread, radiators, does the olation matter?

The location is absolutely crusial. For the absolute best performance possible, you send me your rad and I will install it in my case. biggrin.gif
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCCstudent View Post

Besides the fact the car cooling systen is designed to operate under pressure and it is is maybe/maybe not situation with a cooling system for a computer (no I never heard a release of pressure when the fill port cap is removed).I can run with a fill port on or off,it just does not matter

EDIT: in most cases it is simply better not to bring in automotive system theories of operation (the migration of refridgerant through hoses was one that some good could be demonstrated) when discussing most of the basic (espically cooling) systems on your computer.

Seams I getting a lot of flak for my statement. As for not hearing a release of pressure when the fill port is opened, have you ever taken off the cap while the water was still hot? Unlike cars, computer WC loops cool off quite quickly once the CPU load is removed. And yes you can run a computer WC loop with out the cap no problem as you don't fill the res to the rim now do you.

As for not bringing "automotive system theories" to the discussion. The reason people tend to bring up cars in discussions here is that cars are something most can relate to. Be it a nuclear power plant, a car or a WC loop in a computer, water is still water and a water cooling loop is still a water cooling loop. And before you mention temperatures and scale. Yes that makes a difference, even a huge difference depending on what you talk about.

But that difference in scale and application also holds true for the equipment. Car water cooling systems are made to stand up to pressures and heat of much greater then PC loops. The hoses for example are much more rugged then the the ones in a PC. Cars also have pressure caps that will release pressure/water in case of excessive amounts of water/pressure.

So while the pressure loads in a PC are far less then thous in a car it does not meant they should be completely ignored. Better safe then sorry. Also the unfortunate thing in PC loops is that as the heat and pressure goes up the tube connection strength goes down as the material of the hoses get more pliable.

You can call me paranoid if you want but this is the way is see it. I would never ever fill up a PC water cooling loop to the brim leaving no air to allow for expansion.
Edited by Bit_reaper - 1/16/13 at 12:06pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #44 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Seams I getting a lot of flak for my statement. As for not hearing a release of pressure when the fill port is opened, have you ever taken off the cap while the water was still hot? Unlike cars, computer WC loops cool off quite quickly once the CPU load is removed. And yes you can run a computer WC loop with out the cap no problem as you don't fill the res to the rim now do you.

As for not bringing "automotive system theories" to the discussion. The reason people tend to bring up cars in discussions here is that cars are something most can relate to. Be it a nuclear power plant, a car or a WC loop in a computer, water is still water and a water cooling loop is still a water cooling loop. And before you mention temperatures and scale. Yes that makes a difference, even a huge difference depending on what you talk about.

But that difference in scale and application also holds true for the equipment. Car water cooling systems are made to stand up to pressures and heat of much greater then PC loops. The hoses for example are much more rugged then the the ones in a PC. Cars also have pressure caps that will release pressure/water in case of excessive amounts of water/pressure.

So while the pressure loads in a PC are far less then thous in a car it does not meant they should be completely ignored. Better safe then sorry. Also the unfortunate thing in PC loops is that as the heat and pressure goes up the tube connection strength goes down as the material of the hoses get more pliable.

You can call me paranoid if you want but this is the way is see it. I would never ever fill up a PC water cooling loop to the brim leaving no air to allow for expansion.

I would never fill a teapot,milk glass,Long Island Iced Tea,or a urine sample to the brim either.Can't you explain the idea you are trying to make without bringing up an automotive cooling system? The automotive cooling system and the watercooled computer represent the classic "apples to oranges" comparison.
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

So while the pressure loads in a PC a far less then thous in a car it does not meant they should be completely ignored. Better safe then sorry. Also the unfortunate thing in PC loops is that as the heat and pressure goes up the tube connection strength goes down as the material the hoses get more pliable.

You can call me paranoid if you want but this is the way is see it. I would never ever fill up a PC water cooling loop to the brim leaving no air to allow for expansion.

completely agree, just had a H-100 res mod blow for this exact reason, filled the res to ~95-99%% full, ran fine for about 48 hours [folding], but once the fluid got too warm it expanded and blew off the weakest connection (exact temp isnt known, my fiance let me know over a txt that it had blown at lunch today)

i say blow/blew because it was much more then a little leak/seep, entire tube came off the fitting (ziptie and all), i was, at the very least, surprised when she told me becasue i didnt think an H-100 pump could make enough pressure to blow the whole tube off, but i guess that with the right heat+pressure anything can happen
Quote:
Seams I getting a lot of flak for my statement. As for not hearing a release of pressure when the fill port is opened, have you ever taken off the cap while the water was still hot?

when i open up the res on my main computer after a day of folding it definately makes an audioable hiss of pressure change, just like opening a half full bottle of water you leave in your car on a hot sumer day.
Shelia MKIII
(18 items)
 
Shelia MKII
(8 items)
 
"Shelia"
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X2 3800+ Asus M2N-SLI 8800gt 512mb 3gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
4 (varying in size from 20gb to 160gb) HP DVD RW +/- 8x windows vista ultimate 64bit LG 700s 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech g11 480w custom logitech mx1000 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
Shelia MKIII
(18 items)
 
Shelia MKII
(8 items)
 
"Shelia"
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X2 3800+ Asus M2N-SLI 8800gt 512mb 3gb 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
4 (varying in size from 20gb to 160gb) HP DVD RW +/- 8x windows vista ultimate 64bit LG 700s 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech g11 480w custom logitech mx1000 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #46 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenomorph113 View Post

completely agree, just had a H-100 res mod blow for this exact reason, filled the res to ~95-99%% full, ran fine for about 48 hours [folding], but once the fluid got too warm it expanded and blew off the weakest connection (exact temp isnt known, my fiance let me know over a txt that it had blown at lunch today)

i say blow/blew because it was much more then a little leak/seep, entire tube came off the fitting (ziptie and all), i was, at the very least, surprised when she told me becasue i didnt think an H-100 pump could make enough pressure to blow the whole tube off, but i guess that with the right heat+pressure anything can happen
when i open up the res on my main computer after a day of folding it definately makes an audioable hiss of pressure change, just like opening a half full bottle of water you leave in your car on a hot sumer day.

The water in my loops have never gotten hot enough to even think of washing the dishes in.

Why do you keep a cap on your resivoir, or at least tighten it so tight?

I would say it is cpu overheating that heated the water in your loop so high.Voltages will do that.You are right this kind of pressure does not come from the pump,it comes from the heat of a cpu running hot.

I live in AZ everybody keeps a bottle of water in their car,it never gets hot enough to turn any amount to vapor,you sure you were not popping a cold one from the cooler.Most cars in direct sunlight only see 160F
Edited by PCCstudent - 1/16/13 at 12:41pm
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #47 of 60
In a car's radiator the coolant will get to temperatures above the boiling point and so the coolant will try to evaporate. I say try because there is no expansion possible, or very little. So this is what's creating the pressure inside a car's rad. In you loop, if the water gets anywhere near the boiling point of 100c, I'd say you got bigger problems than pressure build up.
If you have a delta of even 20c, which is too high, that's still not enough to create any sort of significant pressure. Sure the water will somewhat expand from getting geated a bit. But simething barely measurable.
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

In a car's radiator the coolant will get to temperatures above the boiling point and so the coolant will try to evaporate. I say try because there is no expansion possible, or very little. So this is what's creating the pressure inside a car's rad. In you loop, if the water gets anywhere near the boiling point of 100c, I'd say you got bigger problems than pressure build up.
If you have a delta of even 20c, which is too high, that's still not enough to create any sort of significant pressure. Sure the water will somewhat expand from getting geated a bit. But simething barely measurable.

If your car's coolant is over 100 C then your car is over heating. For most commercial cars the optimal coolant temp is ~90 C.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 OC 4.0 GHz 1.35v HT on Asus P6T 1366 SLI Gigabyte GTX 970 OCZ 12GB DDR3 GOLD/Platinum mix 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB Western digital 300GB Western digital Caviar Blue 1TB Samsung 840 EVO 250Gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
generic LG DVD WC'd , Supreme LT, NexXxoS Xtreme III 360, Phob... Windows 7 x64 Samsung 27" LED S27A550B 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
ACER 23" x233H Dell U3415W Logitech G11 Chieftec 850W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Phanteks enthoo luxe Razer deathAdder respawn steelseries Qck Yamaha HTR-6130 AV Receiver 
AudioAudio
Yamaha NS-50B floor tower speakers miditech Audiolink II stereo sound card 
  hide details  
Reply
post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

If your car's coolant is over 100 C then your car is over heating. For most commercial cars the optimal coolant temp is ~90 C.

More like 90 to 104C. Many cars will still happily work at upwards of 125C ... even though water boils at 100C, your car doesn't run straight water, and the 100C boiling point is at 1 atmosphere, but since a cars cooling system is slightly pressurized, it can run at over 100C without boiling ... but remove that cap, relieve the pressure, and see what happens.

But I digress. Computer WC loops aren't even a third that of what cars at, nor are their pressures the same. As someone once said, the only reason why people bring up cars when talking about computer WC loops is because they are something that is SOMEWHAT similar ... but in reality, very different in key points.
post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Seams I getting a lot of flak for my statement. As for not hearing a release of pressure when the fill port is opened, have you ever taken off the cap while the water was still hot? Unlike cars, computer WC loops cool off quite quickly once the CPU load is removed. And yes you can run a computer WC loop with out the cap no problem as you don't fill the res to the rim now do you.

As for not bringing "automotive system theories" to the discussion. The reason people tend to bring up cars in discussions here is that cars are something most can relate to. Be it a nuclear power plant, a car or a WC loop in a computer, water is still water and a water cooling loop is still a water cooling loop. And before you mention temperatures and scale. Yes that makes a difference, even a huge difference depending on what you talk about.

But that difference in scale and application also holds true for the equipment. Car water cooling systems are made to stand up to pressures and heat of much greater then PC loops. The hoses for example are much more rugged then the the ones in a PC. Cars also have pressure caps that will release pressure/water in case of excessive amounts of water/pressure.

So while the pressure loads in a PC are far less then thous in a car it does not meant they should be completely ignored. Better safe then sorry. Also the unfortunate thing in PC loops is that as the heat and pressure goes up the tube connection strength goes down as the material of the hoses get more pliable.

You can call me paranoid if you want but this is the way is see it. I would never ever fill up a PC water cooling loop to the brim leaving no air to allow for expansion.

And you are absolutely right, you are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how many people disagree with you.
Dad's Beast
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770K ASROCK Z77 Extreme4 Asus GTX 590 Patriot Viper Black Mamba 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2 X Corsair Force 3 in RAID 0 2 X Seagate Barracuda in RAID 1 Seagate Barracuda Seagate Barracuda 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG Blu Ray player DVD Burner Thermochill PA120.2 GT AP15 in push, DDC 3.25/X... Windows 7 Professional 64bit Optoma HD66 (3D) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Rev 1 ad Rev 2 (Dual Locations) OCZ ZX 1250 HAF X Logitech M570 and Microsoft Trackball Explorere... 
AudioOther
Logitech Z5500 with Asus Xonar GS 4 Sets of Nvidia 3D Glasses 
  hide details  
Reply
Dad's Beast
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770K ASROCK Z77 Extreme4 Asus GTX 590 Patriot Viper Black Mamba 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2 X Corsair Force 3 in RAID 0 2 X Seagate Barracuda in RAID 1 Seagate Barracuda Seagate Barracuda 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG Blu Ray player DVD Burner Thermochill PA120.2 GT AP15 in push, DDC 3.25/X... Windows 7 Professional 64bit Optoma HD66 (3D) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Rev 1 ad Rev 2 (Dual Locations) OCZ ZX 1250 HAF X Logitech M570 and Microsoft Trackball Explorere... 
AudioOther
Logitech Z5500 with Asus Xonar GS 4 Sets of Nvidia 3D Glasses 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Radiator - does the location matter?