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[No Bug] 'hide' option auto selected for spam reports - Page 4

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

It was not introduced 4 years ago.  It was closer to about 2 years ago.  I joined in December of 2008, and it wasn't introduced until about a year before the switch to Huddler (on 11-9-11)- maybe a year and a half before, but no more than that.
Date of thread creation posted by Bitemarks:
7/24/09

Todays date:
1/15/13

Closer to my original estimate, especially going by year number alone. Still doesn't make a difference that members joining after that date have little to no introduction to the "Spam Squad". Thus don't know what OCN's policies are on the subject. And unless you know to look for the "Spam Squad" then you're likely not going to come upon that information. Of which was already noted by chipp that the information is dotted around the forums and not consolidated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

lol That's his problem if a couple of extra mouse clicks are that much of an inconvenience.  I say, use it to report spam and if any moderators give you grief, take it to a senior mod.  If its a senior mod giving you grief, then talk to either Chipp, Enterprise, The_Manual, lemans81, mobeta, Tator Tot, The Duke, or xXxALLANxXx.  I mean, if you are reporting actual spam and keeping the Hide option checked and yet you still get grief, then you are innocent and they aren't.

It's not necessarily having more clicks that the problem. It's the -no- description given in the actual window as to the purpose of the hide check box. And that the checkbox being automatic, one would assume that that's supposed to be checked and not uncheck it. Only to get a rather retarded message from the mods saying that you trying to help create a better community is actually wrong.
Edited by Shrak - 1/15/13 at 1:32pm
post #32 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipp View Post

Thanks for the discussion folks - this function is indeed operating how it is intended to operate, taking this out of the realm of a bug report and into the realm of a suggestion.

I just took a look around the site documentation now, and you're absolutely correct that there is not a clear definition on what qualifies for spam hiding. The only reference is in the thread which introduces the spam squad from several years ago, and was only able to find that one because I knew it existed already.

There are two solutions that I hope will keep this from being an issue again. Given that the option is automatically checked, we'll take a softer tone in dealing with members who are reporting a thread and requesting it be hidden for the first time. Just as it was here, I think we're mistaken to attribute to malice what can actually be attributed to lack of familiarity.

I'm also going to start work on a project I'd been meaning to get done for a long time, which is a total rollup and consolidation of all of our policies into one single place. Currently, these policies are dotted around the forums and though you can find them if you're looking for them, the average member is unlikely to ever review the information.

I hope the combination of those two items is the suitable solution for you all that I think it should be, though I welcome further feedback. thumb.gif

Thank you.

Honestly, that's a great deal more than I was expecting from this thread and I am very grateful about the response. smile.gif
post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post


Date of thread creation posted by Bitemarks:
7/24/09

Todays date:
1/15/13

Closer to my original estimate, especially going by year number alone. Still doesn't make a difference that members joining after that date have little to no introduction to the "Spam Squad". Thus don't know what OCN's policies are on the subject. And unless you know to look for the "Spam Squad" then you're likely not going to come upon that information. Of which was already noted by chipp that the information is dotted around the forums and not consolidated.
It's not necessarily having more clicks that the problem. It's the -no- description given in the actual window as to the purpose of the hide check box. And that the checkbox being automatic, one would assume that that's supposed to be checked and not uncheck it. Only to get a rather retarded message from the mods saying that you trying to help create a better community is actually wrong.


I am referring to how he complained about first having to restore the post and then delete it again.  I'm like, "So?"

 

Anyway, if you are reporting spam (unsolicited or unwanted advertisements being posted here on OCN), then the staff have no right to complain about the Hide option being enabled when you select "Spam".  If it's used for any other reason, then I think that the person reporting the post and Hiding it should provide an explanation about why they are Hiding it.

 

For example:  if I saw a post that was so outlandishly rude and offensive that I felt it was better to Hide it in order to get rid of it as quickly as possible before it starts a major fight that the staff would have a difficult time cleaning up, then I would choose "Offensive", enable "Hide", and then explain why I'm doing it.


Edited by TwoCables - 1/15/13 at 2:50pm
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post #34 of 41
Thanks Chipp!

I just looked up the Spam Squad thread, of which I also wasn't aware of, and it certainly needs revising, along with the fact it's not coherent anymore with the current feature. In one of the ways though, it's actually the feature that needs revising, as the post apparently says things how they should be, just like others and I have been saying:

Quote:
Then you will see a checkbox and an additional warning about proper usage.

And here it is done properly (screenshot taken from post #91 from the Spam Squad thread):



There is no warning about proper usage nowadays, there isn't even information on what it actually does. For people who have been on this forum for many years an explanation might not be needed, but for others it certainly is.

It would also be good for members to know that they suddenly have this option when they do get that privilege. An idea would be an automated pm telling members about the new Spam Squad feature, explaining what new options are available and what they do. People are normally aware of how much rep it takes to get a certain number of flames, in order to be able to sell, to ask for appraisals, etc, but not for being able to "hide" / remove posts (or even threads, if the post is the OP, like Alatar explained to me.).
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/15/13 at 3:14pm
 
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post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

I know what the Spam Squad is after reading the thread. But unless you were here 4 years ago when it was announced, you're likely to not know anything about it. And no where is this explained in an easy to find area unless you know what you're looking for.

Also, by one of the PM's I've gotten about the hide option it would seem that the function is broken if it's only supposed to hide it for moderator review, as the moderator said the option -deletes- it and he had to -restore- it to check it then -delete- it again. So either the mod didn't know what he was doing, failed to say what the real problem is, or the system is broken.

Just as an aside, when you report something, it adds the post to our "Mod Queue" along with the reason you provided, the severity, and your comment. Upon viewing this report, we can choose to validate the post or delete it. If we validate it, nothing happens to the post and the report is removed. If we choose to delete it, the post is removed from the forum and the report is removed.

When you hold a post for moderation while reporting, the post is "soft deleted". The post becomes invisible to anyone that does not have moderator permissions in the section. If the report is validated in the Mod Queue, the post will be restored. The delete option leaves the post deleted.


What you are running into is that we as moderators are supposed to be quite familiar with the rules. Many of us were around pre-Huddler and are familiar with the Spam Squad and it's functions. In fact, I learned Overclock.net's definition of spam from that screenshot posted above. There is a disconnect in communication, for sure.

I will push for a more descriptive wording/explanation as I think it would add to the usefulness of the Mark as Held function. As mentioned, though, this change is something that moderators can lobby for, but ultimately it comes down to Management to decide.

Hope this helps to explain things a bit!
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post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

If its a senior mod giving you grief, then talk to either Chipp, Enterprise, The_Manual, lemans81, mobeta, Tator Tot, The Duke, or xXxALLANxXx.
You're listing way too many managers, one of which is a test account IIRC. Contact lemans81 before anyone else if there's such a problem with any senior mod, or if there's a serious issue with a normal mod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Thanks Chipp!

I just looked up the Spam Squad thread, of which I also wasn't aware of, and it certainly needs revising, along with the fact it's not coherent anymore with the current feature. In one of the ways though, it's actually the feature that needs revising, as the post apparently says things how they should be, just like others and I have been saying:
And here it is done properly (screenshot taken from post #91 from the Spam Squad thread):



There is no warning about proper usage nowadays, there isn't even information on what it actually does. For people who have been on this forum for many years an explanation might not be needed, but for others it certainly is.
Just so you guys are aware, we were able to do that because in our vBulletin days the work was done by hand mostly by either BFRD or whatever behind-the-curtain devs/programmers admin could find; in essence if it wasn't base vBulletin code or someone else's extension/mod, it was our code, all custom and undocumented. We don't have that luxury anymore but the Huddler guys usually hear us out about things like this. They brought in about half the features in 3 years that we'd adopted over the course of 7; they may be new to the game and imperfect in ensuring things work as they should with each update, but they're not stupid. Huddler wasn't meant to be an instant magic cure for all our woes, nor was it meant to be perfect out of the box, in fact it was worse than in the sandbox for unknown reasons. Mobile development robbed them of a LOT of resources that would have otherwise polished the site nice and tidy, but now that we're mostly done with that, all we need is patience. If you want to discuss this via PM you can, I just wanted this to be the point where we stick to the bug discussion.
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post #37 of 41
Didn't the spam squad function used to work only on users with under 20 posts or so? If that's not the case, we should think about returning that functionality.

If I'm remembering spam squads original purpose, it was to fight obvious spam from new members (mostly bots) that signed up JUST to spam the forum. You were only supposed to use the spam checkbox for this purpose- regardless of how offensive the post from a real member, you were to just report that and leave the decision up to the moderation team.

I don't think a provision allowing to hide some graphic image would be out of order, but leaving too much judgment up to just any established member isn't a good idea- we don't want everyone who has been on the site for over a year to essentially be a moderator who may delete posts of someone they are in a fight with. I mean I could see someone getting in an argument, and coming to the conclusion that the other side is just spamming tongue.gif.

The best solution IMO is to flag an entire account as a spam account, as opposed to an individual post as a spam post. I think this would make it clearer what the purpose is. You could have the checkbox labeled "Spam account- check this box if the user appears to have signed up just to spam a product or website on overclock.net".

In the case of an established member posting something that may be considered spam, I think it's best that the post is reported normally and then handled by overclock's mod team, as opposed to being immediately removed from view by a member. It's possible that a constructive post might cross the line a bit at some point, but that would just warrant a little reminder to the user as opposed to removing the offending post entirely- I feel like little distinctions like that are important to keep.
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post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Just so you guys are aware, we were able to do that because in our vBulletin days the work was done by hand mostly by either BFRD or whatever behind-the-curtain devs/programmers admin could find; in essence if it wasn't base vBulletin code or someone else's extension/mod, it was our code, all custom and undocumented. We don't have that luxury anymore but the Huddler guys usually hear us out about things like this. They brought in about half the features in 3 years that we'd adopted over the course of 7; they may be new to the game and imperfect in ensuring things work as they should with each update, but they're not stupid. Huddler wasn't meant to be an instant magic cure for all our woes, nor was it meant to be perfect out of the box, in fact it was worse than in the sandbox for unknown reasons. Mobile development robbed them of a LOT of resources that would have otherwise polished the site nice and tidy, but now that we're mostly done with that, all we need is patience. If you want to discuss this via PM you can, I just wanted this to be the point where we stick to the bug discussion.

I fully understand that, let's hope Huddler fixes this soon, after all, including a bit of text can't be that difficult. I did notice that they removed the severity choice a few weeks ago, so even if they add some text the dialogue box shouldn't be too different in size to what it originally was.

Oh, and concerning the fact that we are discussing suggestions, after what Chipp said in his first paragraph about there not being any bug and that we are all talking about suggestions, I was under the impression that this thread was going to be moved to the suggestions.

So, my suggestion is, move this thread. thumb.gif
 
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post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Oh, and concerning the fact that we are discussing suggestions, after what Chipp said in his first paragraph about there not being any bug and that we are all talking about suggestions, I was under the impression that this thread was going to be moved to the suggestions.

So, my suggestion is, move this thread. thumb.gif
I think the reason was it wasn't and wouldn't be formatted to fit that section; if Chipp didn't move it there's probably a good reason for that. tongue.gif
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post #40 of 41
Ha, I just ran across the Spam Squad code on my box the other day looking for something else!
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