Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › First time water cooling, any help is appreciated!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

First time water cooling, any help is appreciated!

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 
Hello there Overclock community!

First off, I am (sadly) quite a noob with anything regarding water cooling.
Thus you will not be surprised that you may encounter some really basic and in your eyes "stupid" questions in this thread, so sorry about that.

So here it goes:
I've played around with the idea of water cooling my case for a long time now, and I've decided that I want to do it.
BUT I have a ton of questions specific to my rig setup and some other more general stuff.

First, here is my rig setup:

It is located at a quite inconvenient spot due to space restrictions. As you can see the airflow is probably horrible since it is crowded into a tight corner and the fact that there is a radiator next to it doesn't help the temperatures either.


This is the inside of the rig. As you can see I managed to plug away most wires and cables quite smoothly.
The CPU is already water cooled by a rather standard stand-alone unit.
As for the fan directions: Top fan pulls air into the case, rear fan (which cools the water for the CPU) pulls air out of the case, and two non-visible ones in the bottom right on the removed plate suck air into the casing as well.
Overall as you can see I have still tons of space left in my rig to potentially fill up.


Now I don't want to clog up this post with images, so I will add these and a couple more close ups to my Rigbuilder folder.

Now to the current temperature stats of my rig:
With the fan setup and the CPU cooling I am averaging following temperatures:
CPU: Idle temperatures of ~34 degrees Celsius, medium to heavy load 42-absolute max of 50 degrees Celsius.
GPU: Idle temperatures of ~40 degrees Celsius, heavy load up to 86 degrees Celsius.
(Now I know that these are all 'good' and dandy temperatures, but I would like to overclock my GPU soon and then I could probably grill on that thing)


So to summarize everything pretty briefly and add some more info:
  • I would like to water cool my CPU and GPU
  • I do not have any previous experience with any of the components used in a water cooling setup
  • I am aware of the IHS of some GPU cards, but do not exactly know how they affect cooling (as in: can I not water cool it at all or do I just need a fitting block). I also know that if i can add it, I need to remove the standard bulky fan casing on the cards.
  • I am looking to overclock my rig after adding water cooling, so it should be able to keep some pretty high temperatures under control.
  • Regarding funds and quality standards I am open to any solution. I may not have thousands of dollars for this but I am willing to pay a couple hundred bucks if needed to be able to overclock with no temperature issues.
    => Open for any suggestions and opinions.
  • The temperatures in my room are quite high during winter (radiator in close proximity) and summer (pretty close under the roof), thus I thought maybe it would be a bigger hassle to cool it with a genius airflow if the surroundings are already so warm.
  • As I already stated, I am completely new to this area of computer 'tweaking', so forgive me for my mistakes and silly questions and feel free to correct me!
  • And above all: Thank you so much for anybody helping me in any way possible! smile.gif

Thank you all for reading,
Mr. KJ
Monsta
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K P8P67 DELUXE EVGA GTX-780 Dual Classified ACX (GK110, 3GB) Kingston  
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
Kingston  Kingston  Kingston  Seagate ST310005 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST31000524AS ASUS DRW-24B3ST Crosair Cooling Hydro Series H60 High-Performan... Windows 7 Ultimate (x64) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XL2720Z 27" G15 Logitech Gaming keyboard (2009) HuntKey X7 900 (Total Power 900W) NZXT Phantom (Black) 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G502 PROTEUS CORE Noteblock.. Logitech Z906 AKG Gaming Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
Monsta
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2600K P8P67 DELUXE EVGA GTX-780 Dual Classified ACX (GK110, 3GB) Kingston  
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
Kingston  Kingston  Kingston  Seagate ST310005 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST31000524AS ASUS DRW-24B3ST Crosair Cooling Hydro Series H60 High-Performan... Windows 7 Ultimate (x64) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XL2720Z 27" G15 Logitech Gaming keyboard (2009) HuntKey X7 900 (Total Power 900W) NZXT Phantom (Black) 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G502 PROTEUS CORE Noteblock.. Logitech Z906 AKG Gaming Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKJ View Post

So to summarize everything pretty briefly and add some more info:
  • I would like to water cool my CPU and GPU
    ]CPU - Easy, GPU you have to cool the memory (on the GPU board) too. You can either use a full coverage water block (but the you likely can't remount it to a new GUU in the futire. Or you can use heatsinks on the memory with just a GPU core block.
  • I do not have any previous experience with any of the components used in a water cooling setup
    Pump, Reservoir (or fill tube), Blocks, Radiator, Fans, Fittings, and Tubing.
  • I am aware of the IHS of some GPU cards, but do not exactly know how they affect cooling (as in: can I not water cool it at all or do I just need a fitting block). I also know that if i can add it, I need to remove the standard bulky fan casing on the cards.
    See above
  • I am looking to overclock my rig after adding water cooling, so it should be able to keep some pretty high temperatures under control.
    No, you don't want to have high temperatures.
  • Regarding funds and quality standards I am open to any solution. I may not have thousands of dollars for this but I am willing to pay a couple hundred bucks if needed to be able to overclock with no temperature issues.
    Establish a budget, then see what you can get for that amount of money. I'd figure on $300-500, and it would be easy to spend over $1,000

    => Open for any suggestions and opinions.
    No, no, no. You don't want ANY opinions. You only want facts.
    Figure how many watts of heat you stuff develops (you can assume that all the watts it takes to run a CPU and GPU will be turned into heat). Add in the heat dump from the pump (10-25% of it's wattage). Then figure what size(s) of Radiator(s) you can fit where you want them. Then figure out what airflow and water flow the Rad will meed to remove the heat you calculated. Them find a pump that will deliver that flow (with the flow resistance of the blocks, rad(s), tubing and fittings figured in). Put it all together, leak test, fire it up and be happy! I'd suggest that you have a look at Skinnee labs. Noodle around there for a few weeks, until you understand what they're talking about. Ask a lot of questions, then ask more.

  • The temperatures in my room are quite high during winter (radiator in close proximity) and summer (pretty close under the roof), thus I thought maybe it would be a bigger hassle to cool it with a genius airflow if the surroundings are already so warm.
    What's a " genius airflow"? Figure the ambient room temps in your calculations for the radiator(s)

All the information on heat removal, and air and water flow is available in the water cooling sections of the major overclocking forums.

...or buy a kit
Edited by billbartuska - 1/16/13 at 8:33pm
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 68
Nice post, very well organized, but please don't be afraid of putting pictures in your posts. I personally find it a lot easier to follow what a poster is talking about when there's some nice pictures illustrating the issues right there and I don't have to click around to find them.

I am gonna disagree with your self-imposed newb designation, and take exception to your claim that you don't have any experience with watercooling components, since you are already using a liquid system, the H60, to cool your CPU. It's not a custom loop, but it's a block attached by hoses to a radiator with fans, and there's a liquid flowing between them transferring heat away from the block. That's watercooling right there.

I will also say that IMO your current temps on the CPU aren't that bad at all since you are in fact currently using a watercooler, and also considering what you said about the temps in your room and in the specific location where your rig is located. Making a custom loop will most likely gain some modest improvement in CPU temps, with a higher-quality block and more/better rads, but nothing earth-shattering: a few degrees most likely, but not ten-fifteen. The GPU will be another story though. Adding a video card block to your loop will definitely drop those temps significantly.

But keep in mind that you can't ever get below ambient with any passive cooling system, so the warm conditions in your room will always limit how effective it can be. One slightly counterintuitive thing about watercooling is also that (at least in my experience), it can actually make your room feel a little warmer, since getting your components to operate at lower temps while doing the same work means the cooling apparatus is more efficient at transferring heat from your computer into the air via the rad fans, thus raising the ambient temp faster. The total heat generated by your computer is independent of whatever cooling system you use so you're not so much going to make the room actually warmer as get it to that warmed-up temp faster.

Anyway, it sounds like you've got the bug and you're already a lost cause, so welcome to the fold biggrin.gif I agree with pretty much everything the previous poster said, especially the part about doing your research and learning about what the various components do. Also check out some of the incredible build logs here, they can be extremely instructive and inspirational. Once you steep yourself in all of that for a week or three, it will all start to make sense and you will begin to have a sense of what your specific goals are with your own loop.

All that being said, I didn't detect very much in your post in terms of actual questions, it seemed more a synopsis of your current build and state of knowledge... if there's anything specific you want to ask, ask away smile.gif
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
Blinky
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-950 @4.034 GHz Asus Rampage III Formula GeForce GTX 770 6GB Crucial Ballistix 1600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro SSD EK Supreme HF (full nickel) Danger Den Monsoon Dual-Bay Reservoir/Pump Win 7 Pro 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 Rosewill RK-9000 Seasonic X-650 Cosmos 1000 
Other
Lamptron FC5-V2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 68
I hope its ok for me to butt in and ask a question since the two previous posters seem to know a lot smile.gif.
How do you know what water cooling systems is compatible with your case? is it just simple measurements?
I have an Antec 900 Gaming Case that has a 200mm existing fan on the top of the case ( with the opening being round and also 200mm).
Are all the radiators rectangular? And do I remove the fan to fit in the radiator or can it go underneath? I am an actual noob and i don't want to buy a water cooling systems that's not going to fit tongue.gif
maybe there is a site with the system specs right?
If I need to start a new thread for this question feel free to skitz it.
cheers
Odin
(20 items)
 
Tyr
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 - 3930k sabertooth x79 GTX 580 GTX 580 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
8GHz Patriot-S kit (2 x 4GHz) OCZ Vector SSD 2TB Seagate 2TB Seagate 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
500 GB external Seagate Antec 620  2 x Antec Case Fans, 3 x Noctua NF-F12 Fans, 3 ... Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG Flatron W2753VC TT eSports  Antec HGC 900 Antec P280-W 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
CM Storm Sentinel Zero-G Shattered Horizon Edition Star Craft 2 - Heart of the Swarm Edition Logitech Z906 5.1 Surround sound  Steelseries Gaming Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
Odin
(20 items)
 
Tyr
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 - 3930k sabertooth x79 GTX 580 GTX 580 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
8GHz Patriot-S kit (2 x 4GHz) OCZ Vector SSD 2TB Seagate 2TB Seagate 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
500 GB external Seagate Antec 620  2 x Antec Case Fans, 3 x Noctua NF-F12 Fans, 3 ... Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG Flatron W2753VC TT eSports  Antec HGC 900 Antec P280-W 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
CM Storm Sentinel Zero-G Shattered Horizon Edition Star Craft 2 - Heart of the Swarm Edition Logitech Z906 5.1 Surround sound  Steelseries Gaming Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeD669 View Post

maybe there is a site with the system specs right?

All the (reputable) WCing component makers publish specs, both size and performance. I wouldn't even think about buying something I couldn't find specs for!
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
MouseAudio
Logiteck G400s none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeD669 View Post

Are all the radiators rectangular? \
cheers

lol they make those? like something other than that, huh learn something new every day biggrin.gif

I think if you do anything outside of a kit, (and with a kit) but i dont buy those so i dont exactly know what is different about those.

All i can say is a few points for any system will make you more happy,

1. Keep your pump below your Res. Due to gravity this is just more easy for bleeding and keeping a constant stream of coolant/liquid

2. It may create a better seal if you use a tubing smaller than what is needed EX: on my 1/2" barbs im using 7/16" due to them leaking out coolant if i tried checking for leaks, But the new tubing has resulted in no leaks thumb.gif

3. Always keep a fill line at the highest point in your system, (wouldnt fill your case upside down wouldya?) and it helps the system bleed much better, if not entirely.

4. Alot of people will use straight Distilled water in there loop, with minimal additives like PT Nuke, some might even use straight anti-freeze, for there loop, as it contains Ethylene Glycol

5. Never run pump dry at anytime, and if your filling your system and it doesnt have that "suction look" like if there is little to no water going to pump, shut that thing off!

6. Sometimes your Rad. when priming/bleeding will have air caught in some pockets, this can affect your overall temps.

7. When priming always! always! always! use a different power supply, or short your psu with the (GREEN) and GND (BLACK) wires. Never run your baby without making sure there is complete circulation and bleeding fully down (ya just won't hear that gurgling air sound), instead should sound smooth and elegant.

8. Check for leaks! Alot of times within one hour most setups probably wont leak, but if you want to be on it, I would just let your loop run for 8-24 hours. 24 hours recommended, and have paper towels everywhere, and then check maybe 3 times first week of Oper. and then 2 next, then 1 next, and so on and so forth

9. Nothing will ever go colder than ambient air temperature.

This is one of my checklists that i go off alot.

In all respect, basically everyone should have a checklist for their system every time you build one/clean. And if it's a new setup, to not jump to conclusions by thinking their system is goofing up. And throwing a mere 5c closer to their fan cooled. Just check the system for anything.

thumb.gif

and if your looking to WC both your GPU and CPU, get a Rad. after whichever you choose your coolant to go into first, because then you will just be cooling your CPU with. like hotter water. like dude.. bummer

Didn't know if this would help, but also didn't know how new you were to W/C
Edited by powerdemon292 - 1/17/13 at 12:57pm
Dark Retribution
(21 items)
 
Concealed Fiend
(12 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5 3210m Nvidia GTX 660m 8GB DDR3 160mhz SODIMM 750GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Plextor 128GB mSATA SSD Windows 7 64bit PRO  14" 720p Standard Backlit 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Asus ROG G46VW Razer Naga Razer vespuela Yasper standard headset with mic 
  hide details  
Reply
Dark Retribution
(21 items)
 
Concealed Fiend
(12 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5 3210m Nvidia GTX 660m 8GB DDR3 160mhz SODIMM 750GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Plextor 128GB mSATA SSD Windows 7 64bit PRO  14" 720p Standard Backlit 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Asus ROG G46VW Razer Naga Razer vespuela Yasper standard headset with mic 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 68
Quote:
The temperatures in my room are quite high during winter (radiator in close proximity) and summer (pretty close under the roof), thus I thought maybe it would be a bigger hassle to cool it with a genius airflow if the surroundings are already so warm.
It sounds like this is your biggest obstacle and probably where you should start for deciding what you want to do.

Water cooling only cools down to ambient air temp + air/water delta. If your room is really that warm year-round, you'll need to use a bit of creativity. One way may be to run lengthy tubing outside your case to an external radiator located outside a window, in an air duct, or somewhere with cooler ambient temp. Other options would include non-water cooling, such as TECs or Phase-Change cooling in order to provide your CPU/GPU with sub-ambient cooling. Alternative cooling options are usually more expensive though.

Water cooling does not cool any differently than air cooling aside from moving the heat away from the chip to be cooled by a radiator where you have more room for surface area to contact the air and exhaust heat.
post #8 of 68
Well, if his ambient is 25c and he can get a delta of 5 he would basically do as well as I would with my 20c ambient and a 10c delta. He just might have to use more rads. Of course, he cant get lower then ambient with WC but be can certainly get better results then air given any ambient temps....no?
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 68
I pretty much agree with everything you said except this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerdemon292 View Post

and if your looking to WC both your GPU and CPU, get a Rad. after whichever you choose your coolant to go into first, because then you will just be cooling your CPU with. like hotter water. like dude.. bummer.

In reality, it matters absolutely not in what order things are in your loop, other then the pump after and below the res.
The temps in the loop will equalise and basically not vary very much more then a degree or two over the emtire loop, unless you have very very bad flow.

Other then that, I agree with pretty much everything else you said.
Cheers cheers.gif
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
Dark Vader
(6 items)
 
  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
39 X AP-45 2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon fans Lamptron CW611 FrozenQ Dual Bay Reservoir 2x XT45 480. 1x UT60 480 ~ 1x UT60 360 ~ 1x UT... 
OSCase
Linux Ubuntu CaseLabs STH10 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 68
That depends on the radiator surface area. I've seen some people get worse temps because they try to cram CPU and two GPUs into a single 240 rad, which is less fin surface area than they would have had just using air cooling. Water cooling is not magical, it's math.

He says his CPU currently idles at 35C. As long as your airflow isn't messed up inside the case, idle temp is usually less than 5C over ambient. My CPU idles around 25C to 26C on a modest air cooler when ambient is 22C. That tells me that his case is pretty much in the bakery corner.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › First time water cooling, any help is appreciated!